Clutch Issues: PART III

[masterchafe14]

SO, as im sure a couple of you on here know, i came on a lil while ago asking for help with my clutch problems. Well i took it to a shop specializing in foreign autos, the main one Porsches. So i got it there and imediately the guy said "flex plate" and i was like "ok". However as far as im concerned no flex plate exists on a manual 924. After they looked at it they told me my clutch was going bad and my synchros for 1 + 2 are "bad". The total price he gave me for the repair came to 4200... needless to say I WAS SHOCKED. I promptly went up and got it and drove her home. Since then the most recent time i drove her i was driving at about 60 and i was getting alot of vibration through the clutch pedal, which i thought was weird, then when i pulled into my neighborhood i went to shift out of 2nd, but when i kicked the clutch in it went to the floor and didnt do anything, it returned luckily, but no matter how hard i pumped i wasnt able to shift out of 2nd. I managed to get it to my driveway in 2nd and turned her of and was then able to get her out of gear while coasting. My first thought was that the clutch finally gave out, so i was wondering if anyone knew where i can find a cheap (but still good) clutch for my '87 924S. Also I was told by another mechanic who just heard the symptoms (he's a mercedes mechanic but still knows about other stuff) and he said it was probably only the clutch, so if you guys have any thoughts, recommendations, opinions, sarcastic comments that you would like to share i would greatly appreciate all the input.

Thanks!

[John_AZ]

Good day masterchafe14,

Originally Posted by masterchafe14

SO, as im sure a couple of you on here know, i came on a lil while ago asking for help with my clutch problems. Well i took it to a shop specializing in foreign autos, the main one Porsches. So i got it there and imediately the guy said "flex plate" and i was like "ok". However as far as im concerned no flex plate exists on a manual 924.

So, you met the boys from Hee Haw

After they looked at it they told me my clutch was going bad and my synchros for 1 + 2 are "bad". The total price he gave me for the repair came to 4200... needless to say I WAS SHOCKED.
I am sure this is fair


I promptly went up and got it and drove her home. Since then the most recent time i drove her i was driving at about 60 and i was getting alot of vibration through the clutch pedal, which i thought was weird, then when i pulled into my neighborhood i went to shift out of 2nd, but when i kicked the clutch in it went to the floor and didnt do anything, it returned luckily, but no matter how hard i pumped i wasnt able to shift out of 2nd. I managed to get it to my driveway in 2nd and turned her of and was then able to get her out of gear while coasting.

Finally, a question I may have an answer for

My first thought was that the clutch finally gave out, so i was wondering if anyone knew where i can find a cheap (but still good) clutch for my '87 924S. Also I was told by another mechanic who just heard the symptoms (he's a mercedes mechanic but still knows about other stuff) and he said it was probably only the clutch, so if you guys have any thoughts, recommendations, opinions, sarcastic comments that you would like to share i would greatly appreciate all the input.

Thanks!

The dean of cheap is Schumi. I have done it both ways.

Clutch job done, my final thoughts/tips/stats
My clutch job, in pictures:

You will need some parts that wear out. Clutch disc, Exhaust flange gaskets, Fork bearings, pilot bearing, TO guide tube flywheel bolts and rear main seal to name a couple.

You will need tools.

You will break stuff.

Begin by just tearing into the clutch job.
Clutch Replacement Procedure

GL
John_AZ

[masterchafe14]

Ok, thanks John! I kinda figured it would be a long job, which is prolly why their price was so high too, but i think im gunna try and do it myself, any recommendations on where to get the clutch kit and any preferences on brands?

[krystar]

wow 4200 is quite exorbitant. it is a very tedious job though. I wouldn't imagine the labor would be any cheaper than $1500.

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by masterchafe14

Ok, thanks John! I kinda figured it would be a long job, which is prolly why their price was so high too, but i think im gunna try and do it myself, any recommendations on where to get the clutch kit and any preferences on brands?

Nooo problem.

I did the "cheap" on the '87 924S last spring and after many miles, works fine.

Schumi has excellent information. He is a knowledgeable tech. The problem is that every clutch job is different. After you pull it apart is when you can decide on the parts you want to replace.

The PO of your '87 was a church lady who only drove it 5000 miles a year. 23 years later the odometer has 115K and what to do?

The clutch will be the first of many BIG repairs to follow. Clutch, head, FOES (front of engine seals and WP), tires + shocks + alignment + new power steering rack.
A couple more surprises I'll save.

OK. Pull it apart the first weekend. TIP IMPORTANT. Begin by removing the reference sensors! YES, the reference sensors. Unhook the battery. Remove the 2 10mm bolts holding each down. Gently wiggle each sensor and pull up. If the sensors can be removed you have saved yourself 2 days or more of work. If they cannot be removed----if they cannot be wiggled-----expect to get 1 or 2 reference sensors and the sensor bracket. Good Luck.

If they came out, you will have the clutch apart in a couple of days or 1 long day with a helper.

NOW, inspect the clutch.
http://media.centerforce.com/DiagGuide/DiagnosticGuide04DL.pdf

If you are lucky and the FW and PP can be reused, get a $200 or less aftermarket clutch disc.

Repack the TO bearing. Get new FW bolts and replace the RMS (rear main seal).

Shop Pelican and get fork rod bearings, pilot bearing, new exhaust manifold flange gaskets 2, new TO bearing guide tube and new transaxle fluid 2.3 L or so. Pelican sell a tube of CV joint grease for 4 CVs.

This is a cheap way to go.

If you decide to get a new PP/disc/TO bearing----Sachs kit is top notch===$500 or less at a few places. Then you should get the FW resurfaced $45 and the miscellaneous parts I mentioned.

GL
John_AZ

[Cocacolakidd]

Drive over to my house and I will do the job for $2,000 - kidding.

First check the fluid level in the reservoir and look for spots of fluid under the car - It's probably not a blown out Clutch Master or Slave Cylinder, but it doesn't hurt to check.

Rubber center clutch disk or a Clutch Pressure Plate Fork - are on the list.

See also +1^ for above...

[HondaDustR]

I re-used my PP, had the flywheel re-ground, re-packed the TO bearing, bought a new standard (non dual friction) centerforce disk, and had to replace the fork pivot pin and bearings. It's still working great despite the freaking mess under there from the new RMS that instantly leaked. A full clutch kit is quite pricey for these cars, but if stuff is worn out, don't cheap out or you'll be doing it again.

[SolReaver]

OK, count on the shift fork busings being bad and possibly the shift fork dowel. If you are going cheap...PPlate can be (most of the time) re surfaced and re used. Throwout Bearing you are better off new IMHO. DO THE RMSeal. REPLACE the FW and PP Bolts. Pelican has reasonable prices. When I was going to go cheap I priced used Friction disks and there is a "hack" where you can adapt a cheaper disk. I bit the bullet and went with a good spring centered sachs. It is a big job. Difficult but do able.

Start hitting the bolts involved with good penetrating fluid and especially the Sensors. Getting those out ahead of time can't hurt. Ask questions if you get stuck. Walk away before purposely destroying anything. Notch the Bell housing. Invest in band aids and beer. Slide the clamping collar BEFORE loosening the transmission. Search for and read "clutch Happiness" thread by tours truly

[masterchafe14]

Haha well thank you to everyone who posted, I really appreciate all of your support and wisdom. However at this particular time, I, and my rents, decided its prolly not a smart financial move for me to keep it and work on it since I'm about to go off to college, so I think I will leave this clutch job to another person haha however I will refer whoever it is to here cause anytime I come on and ask a question I always got great knowledgable responses from everyone and learned a TON about Porsches and cars in general. So thank all of you guys on here, you've been a great wealth of information and a good support system in stressful times.

Thanks again everyone!

[SolReaver]

Awwww....
Oh well, yea college is important and a clutch job is a biggie for this model. Afraid to be the one that tells you that without a clutch, it may not be worth much. Few people want to buy a car that needs about a grand in parts and another grand or more in labor.

Excuse me for being nosy..but where are you located? It could be one of the Clutch experts here might want to put their money where their mouths are. I have picked up and done a few clutches. It is kinda like getting hit with a lead pipe in the head...after the first few times it doesn't hurt as much.

Anyway. Thanks for the kind words, we do try to help. Besides, your "foriegn car specialists" really cracked me up. Flex plate on a Standard 924S....whoo hoo, that IS a hoot!

P.S. Did you check the Slave cylinder travel at the bell housing? I only ask because the hydraulics go sometimes on these cars and that would be a relatively easy fix. Check the fluid, go under and check the travel while someone works the clutch. Clarks has all the specs and details. IMHO, might be worth a peek if you haven't done so already and the "expert technicians" you took it to might have missed that one.