Marbles in the Cam Tower

[ScoobySteve]

I've got a troubling sound I noticed the other day. At idle, I've got what sounds like marbles in the cam tower towards the front. It's not super loud but you can definitely hear it as a separate sound from the injectors (which are pretty loud). It's very uneven so it's not like a constant tick and it's only towards the front of the cam tower.

Could this be a lifter or two not behaving properly? The car did sit for a while (2 years) and was then resurrected last year. Engines runs / revs smoothly. I'm thinking I might want to do a SeaFoam treatment. I did one when I first restarted everything.

It's at the mechanic's for something else but I'm thinking of mentioning it to see what he thinks.

[cauzomb]

could be something loose on the front assembly/ rollers/idler/camgear etc..

[John_AZ]

Have the mechanic check the front cam gear bolt. It may have worked loose. This bolt cannot be reused or retorqued. Pelican $~5.
This is what can happen:

The Porsche 944 Cam Tower

GL
John

[ScoobySteve]

Originally Posted by John_AZ

Have the mechanic check the front cam gear bolt. It may have worked loose. This bolt cannot be reused or retorqued. Pelican $~5.
This is what can happen:

The Porsche 944 Cam Tower

GL
John

Funny you mention that. Yesterday I was thinking the exact same thing! (because the exact same thing happened to me 8 years ago). I needed to get home so I decided to remove the distributor and rotor to see if anything was obviously loose. It wasn't so I put everything back together and drove home...which worked for about 7 miles...then the car sputtered. So I reached my breaking point and it's now at the mechanic for:

- Retensioning the belt (I replaced about 1500 miles ago)
- Fixing the loose rotor
- Investigating the above

[Tidybuoy]

Be sure to check your exhaust bolts - just to rule out exhaust leak.

I had an exhaust leak a couple of years ago - just one exhaust manifold nut had come loose. It sounded just like you had poured a bunch of stuff into the cam tower - did not sound like an exhaust leak at all.

[HondaDustR]

Also could be a flat hydraulic lifter.

[ScoobySteve]

Well, somehow I got the timing belt to skip a bunch of teeth

[cauzomb]

ouch, hopefully it was not enough for you know what.

[ScoobySteve]

Originally Posted by cauzomb

ouch, hopefully it was not enough for you know what.

You can speak its name...it was enough for that. We don't know how many yet. Frankly, it doesn't matter that much....it's 20 hours of labor either way.

Apparently, this is the running theory. In my efforts to examine the marble sound, I took off the distributor cap and rotor to make sure my cam gear wasn't loose. When I put everything back I didn't torque the rotor set screw. Driving, it backed out. In my efforts to restart the car, I had several backfires, one of which was violent enough to cause my undertensioned belt to skip teeth and snap valves.

Looks like I have to work extra hard. I own a real estate company in Southern California...if I can help anyone out, now is a *really* good time to ask me for a discount.

[John_AZ]

ouch.

If you were able to do the work at home, replacing the head on you '86 is pretty basic and step by step. 2 weekends--remove head-----------machine work--------replace head.

OR, at least give the shop a 2nd head to put on to speed things up.

I would suggest you might get a used head without bent valves on Pelican Parts wanted. If you take your head with bent valves to a machine shop, the cost for the valves is expensive--usually times 4 (valves). A good used head can be sent to a machine shop for about $150 labor depending on valve guides needed. Head gasket sets on Pelican are $103.50.

20 hours of shop labor is high. You might spend a total of 30 hours the first time-not the shop.

Here is a read on DIY head/head gasket replacement.

Cylinder Head and Head Gasket Removal (8V Cars)
Cylinder Head and Head Gasket Installation
Cylinder Head Tightening Sequence and Torque Specifications

While you are waiting on the machine work,
WYAIT stuff
"endless" To be continued...

GL
John

[ScoobySteve]

John,

This is the worst part. I *did* this job 9 months ago. All of the headwork was already done along with all of the WYAIT stuff. Oil cooler seals, heater valve, vacuum lines, lots of engine seals...I even re-welded the exhaust headers.

Even that job was a major PITA...I bought a reconditioned head from a very reputable source -- it came with many stripped threads...a fact which was not discovered until the head was torqued down. After putting everything back together the OPRV jammed itself and actually broke housing. I purchased a used OPRV and new housing. That OPRV worked fine then jammed resulting in me losing oil pressure. Luckily I noticed it immediately and shut it down. At that point I just took it to a mechanic and sprung for the new ($$$$$) OPRV. No problems since.

This doesn't even count my most recent malaise with my daily driver. The transmission had started making some whining noises. I thought I would be "smart" and get out in front of the problem and rebuild it before it went "kaboom." So I had a shop remove the transmission and give me a loaner transmission. Then I took my transmission to the a specialty rebuilder (with an excellent reputation for rebuilding these specific transmissions). He rebuilt the transmission and gave it back. The shop puts it back in...it makes even worse noise than before. It's obvious something isn't meshing right. So now I get to pay (again) to have that transmission taken out so the rebuilder can tear it down and see where he screwed up. In the meantime, was sure glad I have two cars. But then this happened. Unfortunately, I need a car for work. So I am paying (AGAIN!) to have the loaner transmission put in and I'm sure I'll be paying once again to have it swapped out with my (hopefully, but who knows) correctly rebuilt transmission. Oh, and the transmission rebuilder catastrophically tore the meniscus in his knee so he can barely walk.

So, at this point, I'd rather pay someone $2500 - $3000 and have it be 100% their responsibility. I'm willing to do suspension stuff, brakes, fluid changes, tune up items...but anything internal to the motor or drivetrain I am supremely unlucky with.

[John_AZ]

Again, ouch.

Maybe it is time to move on...member EMBpilots car for sale-

Porsche : 944: eBay Motors (item 140439084444 end time Aug-17-10 14:24:10 PDT)

or local?

GL
John

[ScoobySteve]

John,

Maybe it is, but I've had the car since I was 17 years old...so 13 years now. At the end of the day it's only $3000 -- hardly enough to really get upset about. I carry agreed value coverage at $12,000 so at least I'm protecting my investment.

If anything, I'm a lot more upset about the hassle and that I'm being robbed of blissful driving time -- a commodity which is becoming increasingly rare in my life.

I'm leaving on vacation this Sunday. I will get back to town next Thursday afternoon and the car should be done. I'll write the check, which will be painful, but probably forgotten by the time I get home, especially if I take Live Oak Canyon.

I think the real lesson here is that people should have an honest conversation with themselves about what they are able to do and what they want to do. I'm perfectly capable and enjoy doing a lot of the basic routine functions....brakes, fluids, cap / rotor. I've also done the odo repair, replaced the struts / shocks / sway bars and I feel like I'd be comfortable doing other front suspension stuff like control arm bushings and maybe the balljoint repair. But I realize I'm probably going to be financially and mentally better off avoiding the big drivetrain stuff. I don't want to put it back together and worry that I didn't do it exactly right.

[Rasta Monsta]

Originally Posted by ScoobySteve

I think the real lesson here is that people should have an honest conversation with themselves about what they are able to do and what they want to do.

+10 to this. I had a similar conversation with myself recently, just before taking my motor to the shop.

The line I used to convince myself. . ."Just because I have put together motors that ran, does not make me an engine builder."

[ScoobySteve]

Wooo-@#$@%#$ing-hoo!

Mechanic just called and said he had very good news. Yesterday was his first day back from vacation and made a hasty judgment on my car. Today he had time to dive in and checked the timing marks -- the belt didn't jump! He just replaced the rotor and did a proper belt tensioning and everything runs right. Unfortunately, he also found that the passenger motor mount had collapsed (I had noticed some more vibration lately). But I'm getting out of there for 3 figures, a smooth feeling motor, and no worries. I think that's a good deal. Based on what he saw of the work I did with a buddy 9 months ago, his advice to me was that I should stay away from engine.

[John_AZ]

Do the HAPPY DANCE!!!

I just replaced my MM.

The crappy, 2 year old, cheap, Hamburg Technic------- are crap! My Mistake. I put them on the '88 and maybe 4K miles. I am dumb. Vibration shook my oil filter loose---------after less than 2 years!! I thought because I drive the '88 less they would last 5 years or so.

I have no experience with Meyle or URO MMs----I expect them to be as cheap as Hamburg Technic quality.

I got a pair of OEM Porsche for the '88------Corteco,
I was going to buy the Pelican Rein Automotive like some have used but did not have enough information on quality. I may buy them for the '87.

Great News!!
Have a great vacation.

John