Wiper motor troubles...anybody seen this before?

[TibetanT]

I was having trouble with my running light so I started troubleshooting the wiring harness and the fuse box locations.

Now, when I turn my lights on, meaning turn the light switch to ON, no headlights open up. So, I try to open the headlights manually at the motor, inside the engine compartment, after a few turns the motor takes off spinning. The motor opens the headlights and then immediately closes them.

Has anybody ever seen this happen before? Any help, and any suggestions are most welcome at this point.

I am hoping it is just a relay.

Prior to this weekend, the headlights worked fine, both low-beam and the high-beams. I had backup lights, turn signals on both sides and brake lights on both sides, just no running light on the right rear tail light.

[hpservertech]

Turning the motor manually is suppossed to do that if the light switch is off. So turn the light switch on and try it again.

But it does sound like the switch is bad.

[kdjones2000]

Sounds like your relay to close the circuit that raises the lights is not energizing. Could be a relay, or the switch itself.

The "raise/close" thing when you manually turn the motor is simply indicating that the automatic lowering is working correctly. Once you turn the knob enough, the wipers contact the copper arc in the motor assembly, and causes them to go up and down. If you remove (I think) Fuse #1 it will no longer do this.

I would check the relays on the motor for proper continuity, and see if there is one in the fuse box for the lights. If all checks out, I would get a schematic and test the headlight switch itself.

Good luck,

Keith

[Spidey944]

I have seen the relay act up and do this, but the elect. connector on the motor assy is VERY fragile. Have seen sparks and smoke on many a 944 due to a short in that area.

[TibetanT]

Hpservertech: I did in fact replace the switch for the headlights.

Keith: I have a 1987 944n/a and according to the Porsche factory manual's electrical schmatic, it shows two (2) fuses for the concealed headlight motor. Fuse #2, 25AMP and fuse#37 7.5AMP. I will be checking both of those tomorrow afternoon to see if removing one of them, OR, both of them changes anything.
Beginning to sound like the relay is not making the contacts like you said.

Spidey944: I hope it isn't the relay...$45.00 for that one.

There are two headlight related relays on the 87 944 fuse box, "high-beam relay G12" ( I ordered a new one) and one for the headlight washer.

Relays should be here on Friday, so I will know more then.

[jbaeng]

If you replaced the light switch then the next trouble area would be the rotary switch in the motor assembly. I did a lot of trubble shooting on my headlight motor recently and a great troubleshooting resourse is BODY-05, Headlight Motor Circuit - Operation and Repair in clarks-garage.com shop manual section. once the rotary switch sends power to the relay the motor will either open or close the headlighs. therfore, if the motor runs at all then, the relay works. as i found with mine, the tip came off the one of the wiper blades and lost contact with the contact wheel screwing up the operation logic provided by the rotary switch (the two control wiper arms get their power from the light switch, one indicates the lights are turned on and the other indicated the lights are turned off). see ELECT-21, Headlight Motor Removal, Cleaning and Installation, in clarks garage to fix the rotary switch. hope this helps. it is so nice now that i can turn on the headlights in the car and not have to get out and go under the hood to turn the manual wheel on the motor for headlights!

[TibetanT]

As you all know, I had an issue with headlights now not working after messing around with the fuse box. I think I may have either unhooked a wire that was connected, or I now have a short.

The symptoms are:

1) Turn headlight switch to "ON" position. Nothing happens...no lights and the headlights stay down.
2) With the switch still in the "ON" position, I go to the headlight motor and manually turn for about two three turns. The motor kicks in and spins the headlights up, NO lights come on, and it continues to spin the motor and open all the way then close. All on its own.

Today, I took fuse #2 out. Then turned the switch to "ON" position. Nothing happened, which is what I expected. I then left the switch in the "ON" position and went up front to the headlight motor and started manually turning the knob.
This time, the motor DID NOT take off and open and close the headlights. THIS was also expected, since that is how it is suppose to work if the fuse is blown or gone,right?

Anyway, with the fuse out, I can open the headlights and close them manually, but still no lights at all.

I am beginning to think the relay may be bad or I have a serious wiring problem somewhere between the headlight switch and the headlight motor.

Lastly, with the fuse #2 in, and the switch "ON" position, if I take the headlight motor relay out then the headlight motor doesn't work. Which is what I expected as well.

It almost seems like there is a wire crossed somewhere.

Next, I will try the new relays that come in on Friday/Saturday's mail from our host.

I also have an automatic 1987 944 that I could swap the headlight motor relay into, from the "bad" car, to see if it operates there correctly. (Too bad I didn't think of this sooner, huh?)

I will keep you all posted. Thanks again for any suggestions and help with this one folks!

[TibetanT]

Okay, today I took the concealed headlight motor relay from the "bad" 1987 944 and placed it into the good car. The relay worked the motor and headlights no problem.

So, I know the headlight motor relay is good.

I will be checking the X-relay next.

another Pelican whom is parting out an 86 944 is sending me the switch and wiring on the harness. Maybe that will make things work since I did find the PO buggered-up the plug that comes from the harness pretty badly. The big RED wire which should be coming from the battery #30.

I will also be checking if there is power coming through this RED wire to the switch, since it should be getting power at 12volts with the switch OFF and the ignition switch OFF. Am I correct about this? (#30 getting 12V at all times...it is that way on a VW)

Thanks.

[Tidybuoy]

I can't say why nothing works when you use the inside switch. But, I do know that the motor is supposed to operate when you turn the little wheel on the motor and this always returns the lights to the off position.

[TibetanT]

Thanks for your reply!

Yeah, this is a strange one. On Friday, everything worked just fine except for my tail light, right rear running light.

So, after messing around with the wiring in back trying to get it to work and removing the fuse box to see if connections were okay there, then this problem came up.

In fact, today after checking the headlight motor relay, now my power-windows will not work when they worked before too. I would not have noticed this fact, except I had to take the wife to the doctor and drove her there with this P-car. She tried opening the window and that's when I found out I had another electrical issue.

Reminds me of Poltergist!

If nothing else, I am getting a crash course in Electronic 201...if you know what I mean. It's a good thing I know how to read the Porsche Factory diagrams now, or I would be SOL.

Appreciate all the feedback.

[TibetanT]

Okay....here's the good news! The problem is resolved and it had to do with me messing with the fuse box last weekend. Apparently, I missed a wire being disconnected and because the weather was hot here today, the electrical tape got soft and the connection fell apart. So, I used a much better connector this time and documented the problem.

Turns out the problem had everything to do with the X-relay circuit which runs everything, or rather provides current to components that are not required to start the car. This explains why the power windows would not work.

In any case, I want to say "thank you" to the Pelican 944 community here for the help and suggestions received while I fretted and banged my head against the wall with this electrical problem.

Some history of the car:
It sat for about three (3) years and was not driven because the car would not start. The PO started parting out the car so there were many things missing from the car when I purchased it. I spent a whole summer just troubleshooting the engine to resolve the starting issue, buying new stuff for everything from the fuel system, oil system, to the intake and computer ECU/DME parts. Then, last year, I spent the entire year troubleshooting and resolving electrical problems throughout the interior.

I think I will write a book. (Ha!)

Here are a few photos.

Once again everyone, thank you!

[TibetanT]

The photos should follow here:

[djnolan]

before you replace anything check all your fuses first. each tail light is on a separate fuse. may also be a separate fuse for the light motor.

[kdjones2000]

Holy necropost, Batman!

[Cocacolakidd]

While you are in there check on the Big Red Wire #30 - it is the power wire off the battery that leads inside and does not have a fuse (From Porsche). This fuse has had many melt downs in the past and usually takes out many other wires with it...
WYAIT - place a 20A fuse on this line just to be on the safe side...