help me diagnose a no-start?

[Roman944]

more info here on what's been done so far

not sure where to go from here

no start ... - Rennlist Discussion Forums

IF IT'S AGAINST THE RULES to do this, I'll gladly start the topic off fresh

Thanks guys!

[mikepellegrini]

Like several of the guys in the thread said, you might try spraying starting fluid (ether) into the air intake to see if it starts then.

If it does start on ether, then you've proved it's a fuel problem. If it doesn't start, then potentially it's a spark issue.

I'm not sure precisely where you would spary it - maybe into the airbox - take the top off, spary it in then put the top back on and have someone hold it down closed with their hand while you crank it over...

[Grandad#3]

Hi Roman, What with you having the Fuel Rail end nut off and spraying fuel all over, I sure hope you have a Fire Extinguisher Handy. They are a cheap item to keep in your car anyway. Buy the one that is for Fuel (Foam) or Electrical. Have someone spray the Ether or Starting Fluid into the Air Intake as you try to start the engine. You have said you can see the TACH Needle bounce as you are trying to start the engine. No bounce try wiggleing the two Connector Plug Wires at the rear of the engine just inboard of the Yellow Oil Cap. These are for the Speed and Reference Sensors. The wires lead down to the top of the Bell Housing. If you have not changed the Fuel Filter and Fuel Check Valve do it before you foul up the Injectors. The Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter are at the rear and inboard of the right rear wheel. Use a pair of Vise Grip Pliers (put tape around the jaws) to clamp off the Fuel Line from the Tank to Fuel Pump. The connecting nuts are sometimes hard to get loose. Use two wrenches and place them where you can squeeze them together, so you do not put any stress on the Fuel Lines. The Fuel Pump Check Valve is on the out flow side of the Fuel Pump. When you order the Fuel Pump Check Valve you will need (IIRC) three Crush Washers for it. The main job of the Check Valve is to keep Fuel up to the Fuel Rail for another quick start up. I hope you get your car all sorted out and running great once more.

Cheers,
Larry

[Roman944]

Larry - thanks, my tach does bounce, which kind of eliminates the speed/reference sensors from what I have read, not sure how much its supposed to bounce, but I definitely see it bounce

I'm placing a nice order with Pelican today for some fuel system goodies - like you mentioned - filter, check valve, fuel level sending unit, I will get a brand new DME this time from Pelican, and a couple more little bits

Mike - do you know where I can get this "starter fluid"? I did a search on Autozone and Advance Auto and the search returns "wtf are you talking 'bout Willis?"

[wild man]

Try looking for "starting fluid", instead of "starter fluid".

[mikepellegrini]

Originally Posted by wild man

Try looking for "starting fluid", instead of "starter fluid".

Precisely.

One other possibility (although it's a longshot) - your air filter. If it were really dirty, that could do it.

[AKCJ]

I guess the barn door (AFM damper) could also be jammed shut - that would block off the air.

[Roman944]

AKCJ - we removed the J-boot and checked that - and it opens and closes, and I hear my TPS click when it's supposed to, so its neither of those things

[Roman944]

so we tried to start the car with starting fluid

heard a nice explosion, but the car did not start

so I guess all my air-part of equation works, and my car has spark

why still a no start though?

[AKCJ]

"heard a nice explosion" doesn't really tell us enough. Did the car try to start?

Have one guy turn the key to crank it over and the other guy sprays starting fluid into the air intake. If it tries to start than that indicates no fuel from the injectors. If it doesn't try to start that indicates no spark.

Or, could be water in the gas.

Also, by now your battery may be so run down nothing works right - what's the voltage reading on your battery?

[Roman944]

car cranks, wants to start, but doesn't

strong fuel smell ... too much fuel -> bad FPR?

[S ECU Repair]

Punch list :

1. Check fuel pressure
2. Fuel injector pattern
3. Grab a multimeter and check resistance on reference sensors
4. Check for spark output from coil

[Roman944]

going to be checking for spark again, something is really fishy here

[mikepellegrini]

I just got done going through this with my NA.

I was driving to work and the car just died. Up to this point, it had been running just great - no performance problems at all.

Because of the way it died so abruptly, I was figuring it had to be a sensor, or maybe fuel, so I went through all that. I did check spark and while the spark wasn't great, it was okay - I thought.

Finally, after going through all the different possibilities (DME, DME relay, coil, compression, jumped timing, sensors, etc) I removed the distributor cap.

The contact on the rotor was loose - it kinda rattled. I checked continuity with a VOM and depending on what position it rattled into, it might or might not conduct.

By itself, I figured that should't be a problem - the kinda voltage involved in a spark would bridge whatever small gap existed - I mean like I said, it did have a spark.

The distributor cap contacts looked kinda suckee - they were pretty coroded and burnt (but obviously had been working).

So I decided to replace both. I had an okay used distributor cap, and I spent $20 on a new rotor.

I installed them last night - presto chango, it runs.

I wouldn't a thought a minor loose connection on the rotor and corroded contacts on the cap would have caused an abrupt failure like that - the car was running just great right up to the time it died - but it did cause an abrupt failure.

The lesson I learned: check the simple things first,

[Roman944]

Mike - new cap and rotor

maybe bad spark plug wires cause it to have a weak spark ... don't know

[83supercarrera]

if your getting a solid line of fuel spraying when the fuel rail end nut was off, and the fuel pressure is good, maybe your fuel injectors are no good?

[Roman944]

they are squirting fuel and appeared to be doing it at the same rate when we pulled the rail and cranked the car

problem is, issues my car has had lately can't be simply pin-pointed to just 1 thing ... there could be a number of these little things that could have gone bad

[mikepellegrini]

Jeeze...

I guess a compression test on all cylinders and a fuel pressure test would be in order.

And I don't remember - did you confirm that the timing is all spot on (by lining up the crank on TDC and checking that the mark on the cam shaft is also lined up)?

My son went through coil problems with an 84 NA he had.

He installed a new MSD Blaster coil as an upgrade, and then just a few days later, the car died.

It drove us crazy for several days, because it had a spark - and it was a brand new coil. Finally, out of desperation, we switched back to the old coil - and the car started right up. Weird. Who woulda thought a brand new coil would fail?

I guess these cars are really particular about spark.

If you have access to a different coil, you might try substituting it.

[Roman944]

Mike - maybe in your case it was just bad connections on the coil?

my next step was to get MSD coil or Bosch coil (MSD because its available at Autozone/Advance Auto)

hm, going to try and clean off the connections on it first ... that spot is wide open now ...

also, did compression test - 150 on #1-3 and 125 (ish) on #4 ... of course some variation is in order, so overall not bad for early N/A, I'm within specs

[agilchrist]

Roman - have you changed out the speed or reference sensor connector? I've been battling a strange no-start problem, and finally traced it to the reference sensor wires - I had them backwards. The signal still looks good on a scope, and you get spark, but the spark doesn't occur when it should.