Just got me a 1984 944, got some questions

[thecoo1est]

Hey everybody, I just got a 2valve 2.5l 944, Im looking to get into cup racing eventually but would like to get some more power out of the car, Im not looking for huge gains, but what would be the best route to take to get 250hp give or take out of the car naturally aspirated. I know my way around cars but this is my first porsche and Im very excited. Is porting the head valves or changing cams a option with this car?

[Cocacolakidd]

The original Porsche Engineers did their best to get as much HP out of the 2.5 Ltr. 8 Valve motor as they could. So short of turbo/super charging the motor their are not many gains to be had. An after market chip will add a little - complete head work and Web Cam will also help - But all the gains in HP on the NA motor to achieve over 200 HP will be expensive (Maybe a complete Blue Printed assembly by a professional shop).

[CorsePerVita]

Easiest way is to sell it, and go buy a 951. :P You will pour mountains of money into an N/A to make lots of power.

[thecoo1est]

Originally Posted by Cocacolakidd

The original Porsche Engineers did their best to get as much HP out of the 2.5 Ltr. 8 Valve motor as they could. So short of turbo/super charging the motor their are not many gains to be had. An after market chip will add a little - complete head work and Web Cam will also help - But all the gains in HP on the NA motor to achieve over 200 HP will be expensive (Maybe a complete Blue Printed assembly by a professional shop).

I would be happy with around 200hp, I will just throw a shot of gas (nos) for street fun, and get rid of some weight.

Originally Posted by CorsePerVita

Easiest way is to sell it, and go buy a 951. :P You will pour mountains of money into an N/A to make lots of power.

I like the 944 more, plus I just bought it rust free and running strong for $1200, this is going to be my fun car for track use only really.


Thanks for the input guys I guess my best route is to shave as much weight possible, I planned on gutting the car anyway, taking out ac and sny smog related stuff obviously, who knows might do a little engine swap, how much better are the 4valve motors with power?

[CorsePerVita]

Weight will help a lot. There's PLENTY of weight to be shaved if you're willing to go to extremes. These cars are quite heavy all things considered in terms of what can be lost. You could get to 200hp, but you'll end up spending a good bit on the rebuild and parts. If you're okay with it, then there are plenty of things to buy for it out there.

Motorswaps are an option and the other engines are far superior for tuning since the updated DMEs for those cars can do MAF updates and are far more versatile as well, etc.

[ernie9944]

Originally Posted by thecoo1est

Hey everybody, I just got a 2valve 2.5l 944, Im looking to get into cup racing eventually but would like to get some more power out of the car, Im not looking for huge gains, but what would be the best route to take to get 250hp give or take out of the car naturally aspirated. I know my way around cars but this is my first porsche and Im very excited. Is porting the head valves or changing cams a option with this car?

First welcome to our world,secondly the bad news is that your goal of 250 hp is almost if not impossible to reach with an 8 valves 143 hp N/A. Maybe before you bougth the car, you should had done a little research on different Porsche forums.You would had fine out that there not much you can to those motor horsepwer wise unless you spend thousand of dollars to achieve your goal.The most popular answer would have been buy a 951 (turbo) witch in stock form has approx 240 hp or S2 with 208 hp.Even if you could get 250 hp from the n/a you would still be stuck spending huge amount of money to sort out the car suspension so it could handle the power.Best thing to do if you want to get into cup racing will be to talk to some members here witch have cars already sort out for that kind of racing & see how they go about it,sorry to give you such an answer on your first post but it's the way it is .What you could do is get the car in tip top shape (a good tune-sparks plugs-wires-msd coil & new distributor cap-clean the injectors-change all fluids - Shocks front & rear -upgrade the wheels to 16" if not done yet -good quality tires ,then you migth find out that even with just 143 hp your car will outperform some of the newer cars on the road today

[thecoo1est]

Thanks, I knew if would be challenging to get 250hp, All im looking for is honesty, As far as money goes Im willing to sacrifice, just looking for the best options, This car will be built from my hands and thats what I enjoy, Im from the mustang crowd and have owned and built 8 mustangs throuhout my life, I ve always wanted a porsche 911 mostly but I love these little 944too, Im not disappointed at all with my purchase its extremely fun like it sits, suspension will be my main goal but getting more out of the motor would be a plus, -do you know anyone here that would guide me a little to cup racing info?

[ernie9944]

Originally Posted by Cocacolakidd

The original Porsche Engineers did their best to get as much HP out of the 2.5 Ltr. 8 Valve motor as they could. So short of turbo/super charging the motor their are not many gains to be had. An after market chip will add a little - complete head work and Web Cam will also help - But all the gains in HP on the NA motor to achieve over 200 HP will be expensive (Maybe a complete Blue Printed assembly by a professional shop).

I agree with what your saying, (BUT) at what cost probably more then he actually paid for the car witch to me doesn't make any sense. Your talking about 26 years car here witch migth need quiete a bite of maintenance & the cost involve has all of us know,he is also talking NOS lol he better make sure that motor can take the boost.

[thecoo1est]

Originally Posted by ernie9944

I agree with what your saying, (BUT) at what cost probably more then he actually paid for the car witch to me doesn't make any sense. Your talking about 26 years car here witch migth need quiete a bite of maintenance & the cost involve has all of us know,he is also talking NOS lol he better make sure that motor can take the boost.

Cra should be able to handle a 50 shot right? Maybe Im expecting to much, Im just used to foxbody mustangs, you can throw a 200 shot on 87-92 mustangs with the factory forged pistons, assuming you know how to drive and keep it under redline it can handle it all day and for quite sometime. My money will go on parts and I will be performing all work on my own other than any machining required, which I have a buddy, so It will cost me parts only, If its worth more than the car thats no big deal, im so used to blowing money on cars its just an expense. Ive been reading nasa rules regulations for 944 and it looks like there isnt much I could do even if the car was capable, just got to keep reading and talk to some people.

[ernie9944]

[QUOTE=thecoo1est;5708684]who knows might do a little engine swap,

Then your HP problems are over,since you did built 8 Mustang why don't you take the easy & less expensive way out (put a good old Chevy V8 in there) best bang for the buck

[thecoo1est]

I would not defile this car with a ragged ass chevy engine, plus im looking to race the car in a nasa 944 cup class, thats out of the question.

[thecoo1est]

Lets pretend money isnt a option, not that I would want to get the most horsepower possible but what would the engine be capable of? Anyone know? Im talking max stroke and max head work, of course fuel delivery. All money aside, I dont need no price quotes, what is the engine actually capable naturally aspirated?

[CorsePerVita]

Originally Posted by thecoo1est

I would not defile this car with a ragged ass chevy engine, plus im looking to race the car in a nasa 944 cup class, thats out of the question.

I used to think it was a horrible abomination. But after seeing how these cars perform with an LS1 swap... if I had another 924 or 944 and the time.... oh my the fun I would have.

But if money were no object... cam, high compression pistons, head work, valves, get rid of the stock injection and go megasquirt, ITBs with a custom plenum, good exhaust, strip the car down to it's underpants, fiberglass body work, drop the back out and cut it out and replace with CF and install a fuel cell, lexan rear window and quarters, transfer over to manual steering rack to relieve some more weight... my list could go on and on and on and on.

[thecoo1est]

Originally Posted by CorsePerVita

I used to think it was a horrible abomination. But after seeing how these cars perform with an LS1 swap... if I had another 924 or 944 and the time.... oh my the fun I would have.

But if money were no object... cam, high compression pistons, head work, valves, get rid of the stock injection and go megasquirt, ITBs with a custom plenum, good exhaust, strip the car down to it's underpants, fiberglass body work, drop the back out and cut it out and replace with CF and install a fuel cell, lexan rear window and quarters, transfer over to manual steering rack to relieve some more weight... my list could go on and on and on and on.

just couldnt do the chevy thing, on the note of all the modifications listed, aside from all the weight removal and stuff, what kind of power would that little engine make roughly?

[CorsePerVita]

Depends on the quality done, exactly what specification, WHAT kind of head work you do, what kind of tune you use. Essentially, without a dyno, would be difficult to tell. However, I can tell you that one restricted part of these cars and the 924 is the head. Waking up a 924 and 944 head helps a lot. The megasquirt you wouldn't necessarily gain a ton from, but it will give you a kickass response and a very easy tunability and it's inexpensive to create one. It is very flexible. I'm working on a system for my 924 with megasquirt right now actually. However the 924 engine is less power. I'm expecting by the time it's all said and done maybe 140-150ish. But I won't weigh a whole hell of a lot either. Won't know till I do it, tune it, and dyno. But a 944 would wake up nicely with all of those mods.

With a 150hp 944 engine if you were to completely rebuild the fuel and intake system with something like megasquirt and pour the money into the upgrades, head work, engine work, cam work, exhaust work you may be 200ish. Without a dyno these are only "approximate" gains.

However, that much modification would not likely be cheap, the biggest cost is going to be the actual engine work. You can BUILD the megasquirt for cheap. But building the engine, that's another story.

[smokin_944]

If you really need ponies, transplant a modded turbo-charged 3l S2 or 968 engine. That'll get your pulse racing!!

[CorsePerVita]

^^ yes. Indeed. That would be a great swap!

[thecoo1est]

yea that sounds good, but i want to keep it naturally aspirated and I dont want HUGE power, looks like a 16 valve swap out of a 944s or something would be cheaper and get me to the 200hp mark Id like to see, thanks guys for the input, got to start looking and dreaming, I got alot to do before that , gonna start gutting the car today, try to pull the engine out atleast to refresh, reomve all the a/c smog components and start replacing bushings balljoints etc etc, put the polish on this turd wooot!

[techartisan]

Maximum build from an 8v NA......likely not much more then a stock s2....swapping to an 89-91 s2 motor will give you 33% more hp and an extra half liter right off the bat.

There was a recent monster n/a engine thread on the other board:
330hp NA street engine - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Ultimately, these "money is no object" threads seem to be a circle jerk of sorts. Youve just bought a $1200 car. Your most likely $2k minimum away from figuring out what goes into getting one of these cars into the "stable".

Your first sentence made it clear that you need to slow down and figure out what you want...and what you have.....a $1200 84 porsche 944.

"I just got a 2valve 2.5l 944, Im looking to get into cup racing eventually but would like to get some more power out of the car, Im not looking for huge gains, but what would be the best route to take to get 250hp give or take out of the car naturally aspirated. "

250hp-150hp(stock)=100hp, thats a 66% increase....what anyone would call a HUGE gain.

Youve also stated an interest in CUP racing....you might want to peek at the rules involving weight and engine modifications:

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/944challenge.pdf
http://44cup.com/official/944CupRules-2010.pdf

This type of racing seeks a level field mechanically both in power and weight. Its not about horsepower its about driver skill.

[CorsePerVita]

Very good points, techartisan.