"What's it worth" on an '87 944S?

[NutmegCarrera]

Okay, I know that I'm opening a can of worms - but I have a lead on a car that sounds pretty nice. I'm just curious as to what kind of value this thing might have.

I realize that 944's run the gamut in value depending on how tired they are, etc...

This one (I've not seen it yet) belongs to the sister of a guy that I work with. He's pretty picky, and says that she is too.

The car is supposedly in great condition, darned near perfect interior and a very good exterior. Black / Black 1987 944S with about 45,000 miles on the clock.
Supposedly has records (which should verify or disprove milage), including timing belt service.

All I know is that it has phone dials and is likely a three owner car.

Story is that the gal just couldnt manage to keep driving this and her DD.

Any good way to ballpark the value on this thing, assuming that all of the backstory provided is true?

Worst case scenario - how expensive is the timing belt / water pump / balance shaft service (I know parts costs - just curious as to what it would be if I let somone else have the fun with all the right tools)? Also - how recent should the service have been before it needs to be repeated (because of age of the belt)?
Any other watch-outs, or other things to look for if I go and check out this vehicle?

It has been stored in a garage for a couple of years.

(BTW, I have had my only P-car - an '85 911 - for a couple of years now. I'm not tuned in to the 944 world).

Thanks.

[Guest765]

Originally Posted by NutmegCarrera

Okay, I know that I'm opening a can of worms - but I have a lead on a car that sounds pretty nice. I'm just curious as to what kind of value this thing might have.

I realize that 944's run the gamut in value depending on how tired they are, etc...

This one (I've not seen it yet) belongs to the sister of a guy that I work with. He's pretty picky, and says that she is too.

The car is supposedly in great condition, darned near perfect interior and a very good exterior. Black / Black 1987 944S with about 45,000 miles on the clock.
Supposedly has records (which should verify or disprove milage), including timing belt service.

All I know is that it has phone dials and is likely a three owner car.

Story is that the gal just couldnt manage to keep driving this and her DD.

Any good way to ballpark the value on this thing, assuming that all of the backstory provided is true?

Worst case scenario - how expensive is the timing belt / water pump / balance shaft service (I know parts costs - just curious as to what it would be if I let somone else have the fun with all the right tools)? Also - how recent should the service have been before it needs to be repeated (because of age of the belt)?
Any other watch-outs, or other things to look for if I go and check out this vehicle?

It has been stored in a garage for a couple of years.

(BTW, I have had my only P-car - an '85 911 - for a couple of years now. I'm not tuned in to the 944 world).

Thanks.

I don't believe that mileage for a second with how easy it is to disconnect or turn back these odometers by hand. Even records would not make me believe that mileage. Really the only way I would even think it's true is if this was the first - and only owner.


Besides that, if you aren't "tuned in" to the 944 world, anywhere you take this car to get the belts done is going to take you for a ride. When I first bought my 944 a year ago I was quote anywhere from $1200 to $2200 for the belt job, and one place actually told me they would need to remove the engine from the car to perform belt service!!!!. OBVIOUSLY, this is not even close to required. So I would expect to pay in the neighborhood of $1000 to get the belts professionally done, unless you "know someone".

With ALL the records, an immaculate car that needs NO WORK I would be willing to pay up around $6000. Deduct from there depending on the age of the belts, tires, and other issues.

Best of luck, and I advise you to get the car professionally inspected by a third party mechanic whom you trust, and who works on these cars. Worst case call the local Porsche dealer.

[ddbach]

Two places I know reasonably near you for service. Fabson's in Cedarburg (Dean) and CS Motorsports (Chris) in Menomonee Falls are knowledgable on 944's. These are the people other PCA members steered me towards.
Chris and his crew did mine last fall, I lacked time. Labor belts & waterpump ~$700 plus parts. Frequency of belt change every 30K mi or many use every 3 years.
Milwaukee PCA will be @ RA 1st weekend in May (Fri/Sat). Chris and his staff will be there if you want to talk face to face about it. I don't know about Dean.

[ernie9944]

Like mention by ddbach ,TB-BSB -every 30-40K miles or 3-4 years,water pump can last quite a while .I'll say 60-70K miles will be time to look at it.Just in case you miss it ,the 944S is a 16 valves & need a little more attention then it's 8 valves counter parts ,under the valve cover is DOC with tensioner-upper & lower pads & chain, those will definitely have to be look at (the pads which the chain ride on are plastic and get brittle with ages if they let go you could do intense damage to the head ).Most 944S/S2/968 owners will agree on one thing they should be service between 80K-100Kmiles.Hard to give a price on it since everything up to date is hearsay,what you need is maintenance records & a good PPI.Price can also vary from location to location but if the car is as you describe & has minimum issues LOL I'll take a chance $6k/7K.Also make sure the clutch is ok since it's a major /PITA/& costly job on any 944.GL

[NutmegCarrera]

Thanks for the input, guys.
I have experience with CS - and have had good luck with them. This is some good info to go on.

If any of you are interested, I will post some learnings once I see the car/records. I'm not pushing too hard at this point, as I don't want to appear too eager.


Thanks again!

[ernie9944]

Originally Posted by NutmegCarrera

Thanks for the input, guys.
I have experience with CS - and have had good luck with them. This is some good info to go on.

If any of you are interested, I will post some learnings once I see the car/records. I'm not pushing too hard at this point, as I don't want to appear too eager.


Thanks again!

Of course you'll have to come back & let us know what is going on,what we need is pics (interior-exterior/front/rear/both side & engine bay if possible.By doing this, little things that you migth miss peoples here migth pick it up since they are so use to them car.Once more no money come out of your pocket before you get a PPI by someone who has knowledge about the 944s & specially the 16v one.BTW love your Nutmeg Carrera seem to be in pretty good shape for the year.

[NutmegCarrera]

Update.
Got the folder this AM with the "records".
They did manage to keep the window sticker. Precious little else.
Engine has been rebuilt, including a weld repair and re-sleeve of one cylinder.

Anyone here ever hear of "Foreign affairs" in Hopkins, MN? They did the clutch at one point.
Engine was done by them also, but short block service was handled by Wagamon Bros in Minneapolis. This all in 2001.

Nothing to correlate any milage along the way.

I'm starting to think that this one would be a bad move, but have not yet seen the car.

No records indicating any timing belt service.

Will probably still take a look at the vehicle, if only because I'm curious.


I'll forward add'nl info as I get it - but is there any price where this car would be a sensible buy?

more to come....

[LSA]

For what it's worth I bought my 87S for $3400
Interior I would say was 8.5 out of ten very few cracks on the dash no split seams on the seats
Mechanicals 7/10 it was allright but the Isv was on it's way out and it needed a few other things, still not 100% but it's pretty good
Paint/exterior was 6/10 pretty good on one side but the driver side rear quarter of the car's paint is faded

had 120k miles now at 130k ~year and a half later still running strong also my car is a salvage title, from a front end wreck that was repaired really shoddily

It had service records from the original owner up to 2001 and they were meticulous a lot of work had been done on the car doing maintenance and replacing wear items ex the chain tensioner pads. But with the second owner some kid there was no records in retrospect probably should have paid 2500 or walked but I was naive about cars and was going through a rough time. Don't fall in love with the first you you see!

I would say 3k for fair condition

4500-5500 for good condition

~6k for perfect

[John_AZ]

NadaGuides.com says about $6300 to $9500.

Was the "sister" (church lady who only drove on Sundays? ) driving a 1987 944S automatic?

The engine rebuild scares me. For such a low mileage (if accurate) car, to have a cyl resleeved is not common.

Value?

In 2009 a 1987 944S sold for $3000 on ebay. High mileage.

See post 13
1987 Porsche 944S value - Rennlist Discussion Forums

My guess, if milage accurate and you take it to get a PPI. $4500 to $5500

GL
John

[NutmegCarrera]

I agree.
Based on the info that I've seen now - I have some doubts about milage.

Seems like a big gamble for a car that maybe could be had for 3k or so, and the downside risk is essentially unlimited.

All that said - if anyone's looking and feels adventerous, I'm sure I could hook you up with seller.

[Guest765]

Originally Posted by NutmegCarrera

I agree.
Based on the info that I've seen now - I have some doubts about milage.

Seems like a big gamble for a car that maybe could be had for 3k or so, and the downside risk is essentially unlimited.

All that said - if anyone's looking and feels adventerous, I'm sure I could hook you up with seller.

glad to hear you did your due diligence, and you made a wise decision walking away from that thing.

[Pettybird]

Hate to be the bearer of good news here but if it looks good it's well worth three grand.

Look through the archives and check out clarks-garage.com. New belts will take you a solid Sunday your first time through.

I can't explain away the cylinder problem, but flukes happen. The clutches get replaced on these for the same reason as 930's--rubber centers that disintegrate on time more than use. Mine was replaced in 1996 at 95k miles--it was a daily for the original owner.

The 16V cars have dumb plastic chain ramps under the valve cover which are going to need to be replaced--$110 at Vertex. Idiots overtighten the valve cover bolts and break them, so that's a "known problem."

Budget $1200 for parts for deferred maintenance items like hoses, accessory belts, filters, etc, and do them at your leisure. If it starts, AND you can work on cars, it's a lot of fun...totally different than your 911. They're very balanced, and a lot more practical: It'll be the one you take out on random errands thanks to power steering and its more modern feel.

The guy above paid $3400 for one with a pile of miles and a salvage title, and I bought mine in similar condition with a clear title and 151k on the clock for $3300. Do the math...

[djnolan]

one easy gauge of how many miles are on the car and how hard it was driven is the amount of wear on the brake rotors and the size of the lip. without having something to compare to with 45k it should have minimum lip and wear on the rear rotors and maybe the original pads. and the fronts if never turned should be similar.

[NutmegCarrera]

I spoke with the guy a little more about it today.
If I were in the market for another project, I'd be on it like a bum on a ham sandwich.
However, the odometer has had a problem in the past. Don't know how long it was non-functioning. Pretty well known that all of the work done did not include timing or bal shaft belts. Water pump had been done at one point, as well as clutch.

I friend of mine may be interested - but I gave him all of the info that I had dug up. If he jumps, he'll be going in eyes open. I may still go take a look at it, but not with any personal interest.

Any of you that have interest - I would be happy to put you in contact. I told the guy that I thought it was about a $2500 car, just based on the number of questions. If really strong in the body and interior department, I could see up to 3000-3500 for a DIY'er. If someone had to pay to have the work done - I'd stay well clear.

By the way - this is located about an hour north of Milwaukee, WI.


Thanks!