NA to Turbo power help >:)

[bnw_08]

Ok, this will be my forth complete tear down and motor build. I'm tired of rebuilding my NA motor, and still be left behind all my friends. My NA block is luckily the same as the turbo. (Banjo nut drilled in the balance shaft cover and few other things). I've got the correct turbo pistons, and forged rods going back in, along with the correct motor mounts, and oil pan, excedra. But heres my problems as of now. I went to drop my new radiator in today, and its about 1.5" taller than the NA. Whats the easiest way going about re mounting this?? Also i haven't bought an oil cooler yet. I've found out that the "kiss" oil cooler is better than stock, and much cheaper. Can you run this by itself? But Lindsey Racing has a 3x one for about $700 that's supposed to be the top of the line. I don't wanna get one of these and it be a waist of money and over kill. And the last thing is the head. I had my NA head ported, and polished. The only thing i can tell in difference is the ceramic coating on the turbo head i have, and mine. can i use my NA head? I'm going for about 350 RWHP, but reliable daily driver. Oohhh, the last thing is the fuse box. Does this need to be changed over?? Thanks for the help in advance.

Hahaha heres something to make you cringe. I pulled this motor out of my blue 944 and dropped it in my red 944 for almost 2 months before the head gasket said F-U. Motor had 150k miles, and never been touched or maintained. It was supposed to keep me on wheels till the turbo motor got finished being rebuilt. But what caused these dents? Note all bearings are completely fine, not 1 scratch on the cylinder walls, and the valves look to be fine lol.

[9FF]

Many people use the na heads on the turbo without issue but o think you are advised to use the turbo exhaust valves, they are different, sodium filled I think. Someone will chirp in and clarify.

[emoore924]

Yeouch. Something got in there and bounced around. Valve keeper? I can't tell from the marks but something upstream got sucked in there...

[mikepellegrini]

For the money you're gonna have to spend on this project, why don't you just buy a turbo motor? Helluva lot cheaper in the long run, and you don't have to re-engineer eveything.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Is just buying a 951 out of the question for you? Not to be an ass (I'm sure someone will come along and re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-upload that poster of "everything you need to turbocharge your Porsche, including the turbocharger...) but if you want a reasonably cheap, relatively simple and relatively low-maintenance turbo, I strongly advise going this route.

As the saying goes, "Fast, reliable, cheap - pick any two".

Now as a disclaimer I've owned a 951 and am currently building a 2.8 turbo to put in my track 944 (an '89 n/a). I'm pretty familiar with the differences and they most definitely do not stop at just the engine. You ideally will need to upgrade the brakes and suspension, as well as the transmission, add an intercooler and associated piping & BOV, change over the EMS, add knock detection, etc.

Now you CAN technically just bolt up a turbocharger and go, but I think you're inviting a lot of trouble on yourself if you do. Based on your above post (and at risk of sounding like a jerk) you sound like someone who really doesn't fully understand what you're doing and who really doesn't have the financial resources to properly approach this problem. Turbos can get mighty expensive, mighty quick. Even to get a good base 951 up to 300 RWHP will require a not-insignificant expenditure for upgrades - better exhaust, new chips (or EMS), upgraded wastegate, etc.

If you really want to do this, I (and others here) will help, but please don't be another "I want to convert my n/a to a turbo and have only $1,000 to do it" people. Yes, you can do it. Yes, it can be made reliable. Yes it will be somewhat expensive and (yes) it will take a fair amount of work. But it can be done.

You can use the n/a head. In fact it's recommended and done regularly by tuners since the lack of ceramic exhaust port liners means the exhaust side ports can be enlarged. Yes, the turbo head has sodium-filled exhaust valves which you absolutely should use as a minimum. Yes, the turbo exhaust headers are different and should be used (turbo = lots of heat, lots of expansion, will crack cast n/a headers pretty quickly). Yes, the n/a transmission can handle turbo power IF (and only if) you're careful. No slam shifting, no clutch pops to burnout, no stupid stuff. If you are smooth and roll on power the way you're supposed to, it'll be fine up to a point. I do recommend the taller turbo transmission however for the reinforced internals and the oil cooler.

Are you planning on adding a second timed water pump? I would. Most 944 turbochargers are water jacketed and the timer water pump on the 951 does help with lifespan. For oil cooling, you can never have enough. Turbos get hot. Really hot. Run good oil if nothing else (Mobil-1 full synthetic or Royal Purple or Amsoil).

[nota]

damage looks to be from a broken spark plug
the crematic insulator bits are very strong vs al pistons

[bnw_08]

I understand your frustration, and see it all the time. Someone wants to go the cheap route on a conversion and pisses everyone off. Yea buying a 951 would be more practical. But i want to keep mine, because all the time and $$$ i have in it now. Its pretty much fully restored and I wanna add my last touch. And yes i do realize there's a lot of $$$ in this swap, but I want it done right the first time, and not again later down the road. Pat Williams will be helping me on this build BTW. Check out my garage.

I bought a COMPLETE turbo motor. Which came with wiring harness, DME, KLR, intercooler and anything and everything else you need for the motor. Not just throwing odd ball stuff at the motor and calling it art. The cylinder walls in this block were scratched a little. So I'm using my 87 block, which already has the correct ports from the factory for the turbo. The main things I have a prob with now are the oil cooler, fuse box, and head issue. But everyone has said I can use my NA head. So I need help on the other 2

As far as all the other stuff you listed listed that are diff between the NA vs turbo chassis, such as suspension, brakes, and trans. I have done all this over a year ago. The trans is out of a turbo track car with hardened shorter gears. The Brakes I have (not intalled yet) are off an 88 turbo s. And the suspension is Koni adjustable for now.

You did mention the stuff it will take to get the power output I'm wanting. I have the dual port wategate, 3" exhaust (waiting on to order headers later), stage 2 intercooler, chips, and my intake will be honed in about a month. My friend has a super series 61 turbo that will be going on too. And yes I have a turbo timer to help the cool down process as you suggested.

[guru944]

Bnw08;

One quick way is to get an external oil cooler kit w/ 19 rows 20k engine cooler and oil filter plate adapter all for under $200 on Ebay....

Getting rid of that thermal energy is a must above 200Hp with the 924/944 4 cylinders.
Save your Head gaskets and pistons no matter which head you decide to go with...

Later.

[OFM]

Hello all,
Definitively agree with Porsche-o-phile. The conversion CAN be done successfully if you treat the vehicle right, but you can also do it for less than $1000.00. I know this from experience! I have already put 12,000 miles on my $900, one weekend conversion, and it is running absolutely great! Check out another post we were discussing at More Power please
OFM

[billy mild]

Originally Posted by OFM

Hello all,
Definitively agree with Porsche-o-phile. The conversion CAN be done successfully if you treat the vehicle right, but you can also do it for less than $1000.00. I know this from experience! I have already put 12,000 miles on my $900, one weekend conversion, and it is running absolutely great! Check out another post we were discussing at More Power please
OFM

Very interesting. You have done the impossible. No one ever does this. Do you have a build thread or pictures of you building it.

[krystar]

it's not the impossible. it's just the not noob friendly

[OFM]

Thanks! Regretfully, between the rum and the speed of the build (it just turned into a lets get this done before the weekend's over) we did not take any pics. I know there are lots of people that will raise an eyebrow at this project, but we combined about 60 years experience between all 4 of us and thought: "How come these kids in the Civics and Integras are pulling 400 whp on those cars and we have to treat ours like moody teenagers?". So we applied the same concepts that they use in the japanese cars to our modification. Don't get me wrong, I'm still an old school pistons, cams and carbs kind'a guy, but newer technology has made this possible (and cheap!). However, as always, the worst thing that could happen is not the way it is built, but the part behind the steering wheel!