alarm problem, starter motor wont turn.

royen · 10:52 AM

Hello everyone my name is Roy, I live in Sweden and I have recently bought my first Porsche.it's a -89 944s2., found your forum when searching for solutions to some problems I am having with my car and I hope very much that you have a answer.

I had problems with the alarm going on and stopping the ignition to the car so i finally got so angry I decided to take the alarm out by using clarks workshop guide but putting cables between pin 1 and 3 instead of 1 and 4 as is shown in some other guide.

That didn't work and the car got no ignition.long storry short I tried some different cables connections and suddenly the starter stopped working. I put everything back as it was but still not working.

So anybody have any help to give pretty please ?

EDIT: The instrument cluster lights up and all the electronic stuff works like radio and such, the digital watch flashes and so on.But the engine wont turn.

Oh btw, I had some other alarm module then Clarks guide but it is not the one on the other guide either, it has yellow text and ends with number 3or 4 I think.

Regards Roy

Thank you everyone

Sorry for my spelling and such, my phone dosent really wanna type what I want to type.

matty89 · matty89's Garage

Could u have blew the main fuse? The biggest one like if u boosted the car with the wrong polaritys

Quote:

Hello everyone my name is Roy, I live in Sweden and I have recently bought my first Porsche.it's a -89 944s2., found your forum when searching for solutions to some problems I am having with my car and I hope very much that you have a answer.

I had problems with the alarm going on and stopping the ignition to the car so i finally got so angry I decided to take the alarm out by using clarks workshop guide but putting cables between pin 1 and 3 instead of 1 and 4 as is shown in some other guide.

That didn't work and the car got no ignition.long storry short I tried some different cables connections and suddenly the starter stopped working. I put everything back as it was but still not working.

So anybody have any help to give pretty please ?

EDIT: The instrument cluster lights up and all the electronic stuff works like radio and such, the digital watch flashes and so on.But the engine wont turn.

Oh btw, I had some other alarm module then Clarks guide but it is not the one on the other guide either, it has yellow text and ends with number 3or 4 I think.

Regards Roy

Thank you everyone

Sorry for my spelling and such, my phone dosent really wanna type what I want to type.

royen · 03-06-2013, 08:46 PM

I do not know what fuse that would be? The fuses for the alarm is ok tough.

All the other electronic is working so I dosent seem like a fuse problem.

royen · 03-07-2013, 04:31 AM

Ok so far this is what i have tried.

I have got the starter motor to turn by putting 12v directly to it underneath the car, when i did this i also tried starting the car by turning the key but to no success.

I tried the same thing but hot-wired the fuel pump and it started to pump but the car didnt start.

I tried the above stuff with the alarm as it was from the beginning and also when I had put jumpers on it.

I disconnected the kabel beside the brake fluid container and tried to put 12 volt on the red cable to see if the starter would turn but it didnt. Could be that I didnt get enough connection tough.

So the alarm seems to still be activated but I cant figure out how to disable it.

Any ideas anyone?

royen · 03-07-2013, 12:47 PM

Is there anything that can in anyway interfere with the starter motor? I know there is a wire from the ignition that goes down to the starter to fire it up, but are there anything else? I cant find anything on the wiring diagrams.

royen · 03-08-2013, 10:22 PM

So I got the car to start hurray!

But the problem is still there, I removed the DME relay and put a three way wire there instead, then put.power too the starter wire located by the brake fluid tank it fired up.

Something is interfering with the signal down to the starter and probably with the ignition also.

I still think it's the alarm but I Do not dare to pull everything out before getting the car to start in the normal way,

Anyone have any ideas where to start? Oh and how do you reset the factory alarm? If I lock the car the lock pins flashes in their usual speed.

Thank you all

//Roy

Gawernator · Gawernator's Garage

So... it's your DME relay? ???

TibetanT · TibetanT's Garage

Hello Roy:

First and foremost, "Welcome to Pelican" you will find a lot of good people here.

Secondly, don't forget to post a picture of your car so folks here know how nice it looks and it seems to be a rule.

Now as far as your problems with starting your car, are you doing this with the hood open? The reason I ask is, there is a switch on the fire wall, driver's side (left-side) here in the U.S. cars, so if you have RHD it may be different. That switch controls the alarm and if the hood is open, then the switch is activated making the alarm circuit active and essentially not allowing the current to flow to the starter. Of course, it will also make a deafening sound since the alarm horns are blasting. Hopefully, this is not the case.

As far as a "fuse" is concerned, there is a fuse associated with the DME relay via DME terminal 87b...this goes through fuse number 34 which runs the fuel pump. So check to see if that fuse is okay. This fuse, number 34 however, does not effect the starter, but the alarm circuit does.

It could be that the DME relay got fired when you crossed the wires trying to do the "by-pass" procedure. This is a common error especially since your alarm module did not have the same numbers as you mentioned; and also since you said the three-wire jumper worked and started the car. I really hope that the ECU/DME "brain" did not get fired, because if it did somehow that would also not allow your car to start.

Good to always have a spare DME relay in the glove box.

Hope this helps you and good luck with the troubleshooting

.

royen · 03-09-2013, 04:49 AM

Hi, and thank you for the welcoming, Im sorry to barge in like this and the first thing I do is complaining, I feel a little rude, but what else to do?

I have tried starting with the hood both up and down but to no use, I have been reading trough all the electric schematic and other instructions of the car for days (Tough I am newbie to such thing) and I have located all the alarm switches.

All the fuses are ok and have been tested, but I did one thing that was really stupid, when I removed the windowsviper motor I took out the relays to give me some more room, when i reinstalled them i put the ABS and alarm relay in the wrong place, I mixed them up. I checked inside the alarm relay and I cant see that it is burnt or anything but I guess ill order some new relays just to be sure.

Really really dont want to but a new ECU/DME brain...

Oh where do I find the Alarm relay? I cant seem to find it in any shops

royen · 03-09-2013, 07:12 AM

I have tried the DME relay and it works, sadly. So it seems like it's heading for the brain box :-(

Is there anyway to check if the computer is damaged?

royen · 03-09-2013, 07:47 AM

I have tried the DME relay and it works, sadly. So it seems like it's heading for the brain box :-(

Is there anyway to check if the computer is damaged?

944 Ecology · 08:33 AM

The factory alarm circuit does not affect the starter circuit. You have mentioned that you have an aftermarket alarm. The aftermarket alarm may have cutout the starter circuit.

There is no "main fuse" as such for your car, or for any 944 at all.

If you have been able to get the car running by using the DME relay bypass jumper, and using a separate 12 volt wire to get the starter to turn, you have proven that the DME (ECU) is still functioning.

According to my notes, on 89 and newer cars with the 928.xxx.xxx alarm box, jumper 15 to 87a and the car will start and run.

royen · 09:15 AM

I actully dont know if I have a aftermarket alarm, I have only found the 928.xxx.xxx.03 alarm box that is in the passenger footweel nothing else. It looks the same as in the Clarkes guide but with yellow text and of course different numbers than that one. Mine has these numbers
928-637-104-03 RWD

I have tried jumper between those and also between the 61-A But that didint work either.

Im sorry if this is a dumb question but how does that prove that the ECU is working? I thought that the ECU was bypassed along with the alarm unit when jumping the DME relay?

And to be really sure that we are talking about the same thing, the ECU is the bosch box that the alarm unit is mounted on?

Yes the car ran when putting 12v to the starter, and bypassed the relay by jumping the 87, 87 b and the last one that I dont remember the number for.

Oh and I opened the alarm control unit and it looked nice inside, but I could only get the first relay to switch (The one that activates the horn, small plugg pin 1 and 2) I Removed the DME relay and tried starting the car and the horn would sound as the normal alarm would do. But in no other way can i activate it, I never got the other relay to move at all.

944 Ecology · 03-09-2013, 10:42 AM

1) Bypassing the DME relay provides power to the ECU and to the fuel pump. That is all that it does.

2) When you got the car running, you proved that the ECU works.

3) The proper way to bypass the alarm control unit is to remove it from the circuit and use a jumper on the pins that plug into the alarm control unit for 15 and 87a.

4) The starter is activated by a starter solenoid (attached to the starter) and by a small diameter (red/black) wire to a post on the solenoid. If you're not getting 12 volts at that post, the fault needs to be traced between the ignition switch and that post.

royen · 03-09-2013, 11:09 AM

Wonderful, that means that I could just wire a new switch that when pushed the relay get jumped and anothrr switch so the starter gets powered. If I can't figure out what the problem is.

I have bypassed by doing as you say, single jumper between 15and 87a but that won't work.

The car has been standing still the whole time and the starter stopped working when I was messing with the alarm so naturally I think the problem is connected. And the alarm will not sound anymore., only if the dme.relay is unplugged when turning the key.

Also the warning light, abs, oil and brakepad lights are all on for some reason, probably because me confusing the relays of course.

Thank you very much for your input it's really appreciated!

royen · 03-10-2013, 03:16 AM

Update!

I had the alarm module wired wrong, but not all my fault, the wires where not in the usual position that you see on pictures on internet, I well post pictures when I get home so you can see the differences.

But i still can't start the car with only the ignition. I have to put power directly to the starter. Do anyone know what colour the wire from the ignition to the starter is? I should be able to measure if it gets any power when turning the key?

Thank you again everyone.

944 Ecology · 03-10-2013, 03:28 AM

The trigger for the starter solenoid (thus the starter) is a small (compared to the other wires) red wire with a black stripe.

royen · 03-10-2013, 07:42 AM

I have to come clean and admit that I must have got confused and put the wires back in the wrong way, so I wont be uploading any pictures after all. I simply messed up and came up with a error that actually does not exist. really embarrassing, but I have learned a lot and thats fun.

Anyway, I still cant get the car to start with the ignition, I measured between 30 and 50 on the ignition lock and got 0000 ohm so that is okej, the ignition relay X (G14) is getting power and working as it should and I can get the starter to turn the engine if putting power on the contact behind the brake fluid container.

The only thing I can think of that can be broken is the wire from the relay to the contact by the container. So if nobody have a better idea then I will start tomorrow with finding that wire and try to replace it.

Thank you all for your input

Regards.

kfray · kfray's Garage

Pin 30 of the ignition switch should measure 12vdc and pin 15 should measure 12vdc with the ignition key in the start position. If you measure 12 VdC at pin 15 then the red/black striped wire from pin 15 to the starter is open circuit. Maybe your car has a modification, I would try to follow this wire from pin 15 and determine the current problem.
Good luck