are we seeing history repeated?

wannaberacer · 10-03-2002, 11:05 AM

hey guys,
I just looked over to the cayenne section, and started to read about what they had to say, and it wasn't good. Mostly, it was because it was a porsche suv, and not another sports car. I Personally believe to much of one thing dulls one's taste.
It's just like when porsche introduced that water-cooled front engine designed vw propelled car. Many people who had never driven the car said it sucked. And here we are, still argueing over what a porsche is. Ignorance, and "herd" mentalities rule most.I guess history isn't the story of things getting better.

BTW; I bet you didn't know that the porsche has 18 inch brakes, and that the acceleration is on par with that of 993's. How's that for a porsche?

very~worn~944 · very~worn~944's Garage

Amen brother...I personally won't buy one because I dislike all suv's...but if anyone wants one, more power to them. i am suprised that 944 owners are talking shoot, because we know how it feels. 944's kept porsche alive. change CAN be a good thing. All that money goes straight back to porsche, which means better cars for all of us. Calm down and welcome them to our family guys.

AFJuvat · 10-04-2002, 01:20 AM

I think it boils down to the "my car is better than your car" mentality. The Cayenne is just so different than anything they've done before it is normal to expect some dissention amongst the ranks - When you think "Porsche" you think "sports car" - Not something a soccer mom takes her kids team to the game in.

That and I think a lot of it is fear of the car becoming "trendy" A lot of owners slam Boxster owners for the same thing - they bought it because it was trendy, and that they know nothing about the car/company/history etc.

To be honest, I am somewhat uneasy about the Cayenne, though if I have the money, I would probably buy one for my wife. A twin turbo SUV does make me a little curious.

My 2¢, your mileage may vary.

AFJuvat

i3urtonair · 10-04-2002, 04:30 AM

Quote:

they bought it because it was trendy, and that they know nothing about the car/company/history etc.

Does someone really need to know about the company or the history in order to love a car? I disagree....
I dont know much about porsche(the company) and it's history but I have fallen in love with the 944. That's why I am working my arse off to get one.

todd951 · 10-04-2002, 06:33 AM

The Cayenne may have looked like a good move when it was conceived, but I think it may turn out to be a bad move for Porsche given that it's coming to market now. The stock market has been down for two years, so all the wealthy people who normally would buy one are going to be watching their spending a bit more closely since their stock portfolios have taken a dump. I'm curious to see if their actual sales numbers are anywhere close to what they were hoping.
And yes, your mileage may vary. I bet a twin turbo V8 SUV will get like 5 mpg

AFJuvat · 10-04-2002, 06:38 AM

Know the company/history etc to love a car - no.

It just seems to me (flame suit is now on) that a higher number of Porsche owners "know" things about the cars/company than a comparable owner of a domestic or japanese import.

Trying not to sound elitist, but to me, there is a definate "mentality" to the Porsche owner. We own them because we love to drive - faster and more curvy the road the better. Most (not all) will tend to correct people that call it a "porsh"

What other group of owners has the tradition of "flashing" each other as we pass - You can approach another owner and strike up a conversation - you instantly have something in common.

Where many boxster owners got a bad reputation from within the community is, many of them set themselves apart from the "community".

he general concensus is that Cayenne owners will do the same - plus it is an SUV, which is, in principle, wrong from a company like Porsche - I seem to recall several Mercedes and BMW owners that were upset when they made SUV's too.

Long meandering answer, but it is my 2¢ worth

AFJuvat

scottmandue · 09:19 AM

wannaberacer,

I respectfully disagree, The history and reputation of Porsche came from racing sports cars and using what they learned to produce race/sports cars for the general public that can be driven on the road.
At this time SUV sales are dropping and the economy is sagging (have you seen the new Mini ads "the SUV backlash starts here"). So if the Cayenne falls on it's face it could be a finical fiasco for Porsche instead of a gain.
A car... is a car... is a car... I don't HATE SUV's, if you need one, if you live in a part of the world with bad weather and/or bad roads, or need to haul six to eight people around regularly, or if you just like the way they look.
What I DO hate are people who can't drive and rather than learn how to drive safely they wrap themselves in two tons of steel and are a hazard to everyone on the road.

Sorry for the rant.

Nabeel · 10-04-2002, 10:56 AM

I hope the Cayenne is a huge sales sucess and makes the company rich. Then they can put all that money into racing- I want to see them back at LeMans!. The Cayenne will be gone once the SUV craze dies off (it will, won't it?

).

scottmandue · 10-04-2002, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nabeel
I hope the Cayenne is a huge sales sucess and makes the company rich. Then they can put all that money into racing- I want to see them back at LeMans!.

From what I read Porsche is already very rich... and there is no money to be made racing.

Although the rumors of a F1 program, The new Carrera, do give me some hope.

Mark_944S2 · 10-04-2002, 02:05 PM

When I bought my 944 a week ago I didn't know much about the company but I did know that they stood for making responsive sports cars that are all about driving enjoyment.

The 944 was the most fun car to drive of any I have tried recently including a corvette, bora VR6, eclipse and a few others

I am sceptical about the Cayenne because I've never been in an SUV that didn't drive like ***t. I guess if anyone can pull it off Porsche can but you can't disguise the fact that no matter how well it accelerates, corners and brakes it would do so much better if it was shaped like a sports car!

So what do porsche stand for now?

Mark

scottmandue · 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark_944S2

So what do porsche stand for now?

Mark

Proof
Of
Rich
Spoiled
Children
Having
Everything

He he he...

Sorry, just kidding!

Bob's944 · Bob's944's Garage

I think it's very unlikely there will be many Cheyenne Turbo's sitting on any Porsche lots in the US. My prediction is that it will become THE SUV for all the way too highly paid sports figures here, and will sell out every one imported to the US. The basic Cheyenne will perform on par with BMW's X5 4.6i that is tweeked by BMW's M division and should sell very well also. Has anyone here driven a BMW X5 4.6i?? I drove the less powerful X5 4.4i and it was flat out amazing how well it accelerated AND handled .... the Porsche offerings should nuthing more than incredible in all areas of performance and handling. Monsterous rubber, monsterous brakes, a suspension tuned for both on and off road use will balance out the heavy weight and large size. Porsche is going to take all it learned from offroading in 911 Carreras and put it too good use... seems to me it's a natural progression.

Oh... if you don't wanna pay for the Cheyenne, VW will be selling the twin to it, stuffed with Audi's best engines... rumours are the 4.2L 40V V8 will have 330 HP in the VW version for about $20k less than the base Cheyenne.

divezic · divezic's Garage

Porsche is all about engineering. The Cayenne so far appears to be perfectly in line with the spirit of Porsche.

We won't see it in GT1 anytime soon, but I bet it'll give a heck of a showing at Paris to Dakkar, a la 959 (or any of the other off-road rallys).

scottmandue · 10-04-2002, 03:47 PM

I got a dollar that says we will NEVER see a Cayenne in any off road race...

AFJuvat · 10-04-2002, 06:30 PM

heard they were kicking around entering it in Dakar.

AFJuvat

drew1 · 10-04-2002, 06:48 PM

AFJuvat, in Greenwood, SC it is Porch.

It might be a good SUV. I don't have one now, but years ago had the original, an International Travelall.

Porsche got started as a car company building race & sports cars from basically VW parts. As models were refined they became less & less VW. The 911, 928 & Boxter weren't VW diratives. I think as Porsche got to competeing & winning overall victories, they got to be a rich man's car. The family doesn't run the company now. It's all money and none of the joy of building a fine sports car. All of them have luxuries that would make a Cadilac jealous. They are sporty luxury cars. Look at the GT2. A stripped twin turbo with just two wheel drive, a more powerful motor & bigger brakes. It cost 50% more. No Porsche is driven by greed at the & will start losing their market share.

I think it was on the 914 board, that I saw a post with a link to Road & Track about a "new" 914. A light, mid engine, mid $20,000 car with VW/Audi derived motor. Now that would interest me a lot more than a 4000 lb twin turbo. I thought GM messed up the Fiero by making it a dog, should have used the Quad 4 & good suspension & brakes.

I say to the Cayenne people, it your car who cares what everybody else thinks.

drew1

Nabeel · 10-04-2002, 10:42 PM

BMW shoved a LeMans V12 into an X5 and got Hans Stuck to drive the thing around the Nurburgring. He got a sub-8 minute time- downright incredible for a 5000lb brick. Let's see the Cayenne top that!! Let the SUV speed wars begin!

Nabeel · 10-04-2002, 10:44 PM

Stupid question, but does anyone know if the Cayenne is going to be offered with a tiptronic only, or will a manual also be available? The X5 can be had with a manual with the 6 cylinder engine....