Power Steering Fluid?

[Kevin0323]

Hey everyone.

When I first got my car the power steering fluid resevoir was filled with ATF. Is this better than putting in actual power steering fluid?

I topped it off with power steering fluid so now there is a nice mixture going on.

Since receiving the car I've had a power steering fluid leak.

[Britwrench]

Dexron 111 is the fluid. Look at the hoses, rack and pump till you find the leak. A lot of the time the reservoir hoses just need new hose clamps...if there fluid on the frame below the reservior.

[AaronM]

Do NOT use generic "Power Steering Fluid" in the 944's ZF steering rack. Also, you should never mix types of hydraulic fluids, you never know how they'll interact. Drain that out of there and replce it with the proper GM Dexron III automatic transmission fluid.

Why didn't you check your manual before you started dumping random fluid into the PS reservoir?

[Kevin0323]

I don't think that it is crazy to think that power steering fluid goes in your power steering and transmission fluid goes in your transmission.

What is the advantage of ATF instead of power steering fluid?

When I got the car it had a leak. So I bought some pretty expensive power steering fluid that is supposed to help stop leaks. This was not a "random fluid".

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Kevin0323
I don't think that it is crazy to think that power steering fluid goes in your power steering and transmission fluid goes in your transmission.

What is the advantage of ATF instead of power steering fluid?

When I got the car it had a leak. So I bought some pretty expensive power steering fluid that is supposed to help stop leaks. This was not a "random fluid".

Did you check the manual? No. Therefore it's random. It doesn't matter how expensive it is. Always use what the manual recommends as far as fluid types. Just guessing is, frankly, an inexcuseable habit. Anyone who has been around cars should know that there are at least a dozen varieties of "power steering fluid" on the market.

Wait, you put a "leak stop" fluid in?? GET IT OUT NOW! The only thing that those do is clog pumps and valves. It can destroy a rack that otherwise only needed new seals. No halfways decent mechanic will ever recommend putting that crap into a car. Why not pour a bunch of that teflon oil additive into your car while your at it? I mean, as long as you're throwing things into your car that cause damage to it...

Both power steering systems and automatic transmissions are essentially hydraulic pumps. Both ATF and Power Steering fluid are hydraulic fluid with certain additive packages that are necessary for proper operation of whatever pump they are specified for.

Putting Dexron in a power steering system that calls for Honda Power Steering fluid (for example) can ruin the power steering system. Likewise, putting power steering fluid into a power steering system that calls for Dexron can ruin the power steering system.

The advantage of using Dexron III in the 944's ZF power steering system is that the system was designed for it and using other fluids will decrease performance and durability.

I have a very difficult time feeling sorry for you in this situation. You failed twice with some very easy things: You didn't check the manual (always check the manual and only use what it calls for) and you didn't check with a mechanic (or you would have been warned about that leak-stop crap).

[pokey]

Hey! Give the guy a break. He is new to our addiction, and a lot of 20 year old cars don't have their manuals anymore. That said, don't assume, ask. Drain the system and refill with DexronIII. Clean everything, and drive it some. Then inspect and find your leak. Fix what's broke...

[Kevin0323]

Aaron,

Obviously there are going to be some people in this world that are not experienced mechanics and know everything about cars. I just recently started driving and I think it's funny that you are so upset about this. I should not be ostracized because I'm not as smart as you when it comes to the inner workings of a 944. I am learning about cars in general as I go along. I just got my license a couple of years ago and I have not been around cars long enough to know what different variations of power steering fluid there are and I don't claim to know.

"inexcuseable habit." What are you, my mom?

Again, I don't think that it is crazy to think that power steering fluid goes in your power steering and transmission fluid goes in your transmission and I don't think I'm the only one.
You should expect a 20 year old car to not have a manual.

The reason why I started this thread is because I didn't know if this was correct or not and was asking for help. Your reply doesn't help Aaron and I think it goes against everything that this forum was intended for.

Please exercise a little restraint before you unload on someone for not having the knowledge of something they are asking for knowledge about.

[livewirevoodoo]

Filling Capacities (this is for an 87 NA, mind you not sure if Turbos or early model 944s differ):

Engine oil
With filter change approx. 6.34 U.S. qts. or 6 liters. Check oil level with dipstick a few minutes after engine has stopped. The difference between the max. and min. marks on the dipstick is approx. 1 U.S. qt. or 1 liter.

Cooling system with heating
Approx. 8,2 U.S. qts. or 7,8 liters. Factory filled to -31°F (-35°C). Only use phosphate-free anti-freeze containing ethylene glycol recommended for aluminum engines and radiators.

Cold tire pressure
front 29 psi (2.0 bar), rear 36 psi (2.5 bar)

Automatic transmission with torque converter
Approx. 1.72 U.S. gal. or 6.5 liters ATF Dexron®. At oil changes 3 U.S. qts. or 2.8 liters are required.

Differential of automatic transmission
Approx. 1 U.S. qts. or 1 liter hypoid oil SAE 90 according to API classification GL 5 or Mil-L 2105 B

Power steering
Approx. 0.63 U.S. qts. or 0.6 liter ATF Dexron®

Fuel tank
Approx. 21.1 U.S. gals, including a reserve of 2.1 U.S. galsUnleaded fuel only! Minimum octane rating 87

Brake fluid
Approx. 0.42 U.S. pint or 0.2 liter. Only use brake fluid conforming to specifications SAE J 1703, DOT 3 or DOT 4.

Windshield and headlight washer system
Approx. 1.59 U.S. gals, or 6.0 liters.

Refrigerant for air conditioning
Approx. 33.5 oz or 950 g. Refrigerant R 12 (CCI2F2)

[Kevin0323]

Thanks livewirevoodoo. Very helpful!

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Kevin0323
Aaron,

Obviously there are going to be some people in this world that are not experienced mechanics and know everything about cars. I just recently started driving and I think it's funny that you are so upset about this. I should not be ostracized because I'm not as smart as you when it comes to the inner workings of a 944. I am learning about cars in general as I go along. I just got my license a couple of years ago and I have not been around cars long enough to know what different variations of power steering fluid there are and I don't claim to know.

"inexcuseable habit." What are you, my mom?

Again, I don't think that it is crazy to think that power steering fluid goes in your power steering and transmission fluid goes in your transmission and I don't think I'm the only one.
You should expect a 20 year old car to not have a manual.

The reason why I started this thread is because I didn't know if this was correct or not and was asking for help. Your reply doesn't help Aaron and I think it goes against everything that this forum was intended for.

Please exercise a little restraint before you unload on someone for not having the knowledge of something they are asking for knowledge about.

I've bought many old cars, none of them without a manual. Besides, even if the car didn't come with one, Haynes makes nice enough manuals that are cheaply and widely available.

If you had bothered to cut through my gruff replies, you would see that I did, in fact, give you the information you needed. I confirmed Britwrench's Dexron III recommendation and told you that leak-stop fluid clogs pumps and valves in PS racks and that you need to drain it out of there. I also cautioned you against mixing different types of hydraulic fluid because of how the additives might interact. Furthermore, I explained why some systems use ATF and some use PS fluid.

Just because I wasn't sugary-sweet doesn't mean that I didn't give you useful information.

I'm not unloading on you for not having the knowledge. I'm unloading on you because you knew that you didn't have the knowledge, but instead of checking, you acted anyway. I've seen enough cars damaged from the results of that type of thought that it has become a large pet-peeve of mine.

No, I'm not PC. No, I'm not saccarine-sweet. No, I'm not about to coddle you. However, if you can handle someone actually who calls things as they are, you just might learn something.

[Eldorado]

hey Mr. High and Mighty, get off your high horse... maybe then your replies (with answers burried in your "gruff replies") will be better accepted.

he did come and ask, regardless of his previous actions... lay off..

[livewirevoodoo]

Originally posted by AaronM
I've bought many old cars, none of them without a manual. Besides, even if the car didn't come with one, Haynes makes nice enough manuals that are cheaply and widely available.

The $15 spent on a Haynes manual is money well invested, for the electrical schematics alone.

Some other required reading should be the Garage Shop Manual at Clark's Garage.

On another note, while not sugary sweet, Aaron did give a very detailed explanation of what not to do and why not. Which could be the difference between a ruined steering rack and a $4 bottle of AFT.

I hereby nominate Aaron as the offical responder to the "How do I turbo my NA" threads.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Eldorado
hey Mr. High and Mighty, get off your high horse... maybe then your replies (with answers burried in your "gruff replies") will be better accepted.

he did come and ask, regardless of his previous actions... lay off..

Yes, I could have been nicer, but that's just not me. Love or hate me for the ornery son of a b*tch that I am. I still stand behind the fact that I did answer his questions in a reasonably correct, if not pleasant, manner.

As for the "high horse"; bull. I've done plenty of dumbarse and completely brain-dead things in my life (the time I caught my computer on fire comes strongly to mind). Thing is, I admit that I was a complete moron when I did that and don't say things like "I don't think it's crazy to assume that the reset switch can be safely cross-wired with the 'turbo' switch on a 486 motherboard". (For the record, that's an example of one of my more benign f*ck-ups, I've done far stupider; electricity and Aaron don't play well together.)

Perhaps I'm just remembering my 924S. The first thing I had to do to it was replace the PS rack because the PO had used power steering fluid instead of Dexron III and the fluid had eaten the seals. Then to fix it, the PO had used a stop-leak fluid. I suggested using more of the same and my mechanic lit off on me in a fashion that makes my replies in this thread look positively warm and fuzzy.

That said, I was having a particularly bad day when I first replied and just kind of kept going. I should have paused more than I did.

[WolfeMacleod]

Aaron, didn't I meet you at XXX a couple months ago? Was that you who followed me to Barrier?

[AaronM]

Originally posted by WolfeMacleod
Aaron, didn't I meet you at XXX a couple months ago? Was that you who followed me to Barrier?

Yup, that was me. I'm less of an arse in person, eh?

Plus I hadn't had a crappy day at work that day either.

[nize]

heheh i just read this.

aaron, stop picking on the noobies you bully !

[griffithstech]

Originally posted by Kevin0323
Hey everyone.

When I first got my car the power steering fluid resevoir was filled with ATF. Is this better than putting in actual power steering fluid?

I topped it off with power steering fluid so now there is a nice mixture going on.

Since receiving the car I've had a power steering fluid leak.

Actually you can use either Dexron tye II or type III.
The difference is type III added improved oxidation and corrosion control. However you won't find much of the earlier type II laying around. You can use any brand "Dexron III" as they all must meet the same spec. You don' t need a synthetic perse type III as the power steering system
does not see the high temperatures that grade of ATF was designed for.

As the goods posts said "clean of the fluid leaks, top it off, and find the leak soon as it won't get better with age.
And, carry an extra quart in the trunk in case you find things starting to get noisey... such as when the power steering pump runs dry and starts to crash .... which by then you'll need a pump.

[Razorback1980]

Hey Kevin,

First, welcome to the addiction as someone put it...Second, Aaron isn't as mean as he sounded, you will actually find he will help you many times here so don't be intimidated to ask any question, we are all here to help you and will gladly do so. The forum is here for just that reason. You are right, we all have to learn and asking questions is how we learn together so don't be afraid to ask...we'll calm Aaron somehow..somebody get a firehose on that guy! I would also advise you to pick up that Haynes manual at the least to start with. You can also sometimes find an owners manual on ebay for a reasonable price. I would give some advice on how to fix your problem, but I think everyone has covered it already. You will find that people like Britwrench, livewirevoodoo and many others have a wealth of information packed in their heads that will continually make you wonder how they knew that. They are good resources and are kind enough to share that knowledge, at least they have with me many times and I'm sure they will for you too. Good luck and let us know if we can help.

[Razorback1980]

Kevin, one thing I just thought of....do you need any help with how to change the fluid in the p/s system?

[todd951]

You can buy a new owners manual for your car right here at Pelican:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/944M/POR_944M_TOLbks_pg1.htm#item3

My 951 didn't have one when I got it, and that's one of the first things I bought after I got the car.