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Herr Kuhn
How would this work at altitude in Denver? Or higher say 8000ft. As you can imagine turbos etc are a great addition here in Colorado due to performance issues at this altitude. I have an 89S4 what would be a great candidate for altitude testing with this. Would it auto sense the air fuel mix as the altitude changed say driving up I70? Thanks Gregg Denver CO |
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12-03-2007, 06:41 PM
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Location: Stockton, CA
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Don't forget about the ORR racers.....boost really helps with the thin air up in the desert!!
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Brian 1984 "Estate" racer 1988 928S4 Guards red over Champagne Leather (sold) Co founder of "Stockton Sharks Society" |
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12-03-2007, 07:44 PM
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I don't want to give out too many technicalities on the tune. I will say that at these pressure levels it is essential to tune out the ignition properly. For you guys still running stock ignition chips you should really get a retarded chip into the EZK because the safety of your motor depends on it. The good rule of thumb is 1 to 1.5 degrees retard per psig on boost...maybe more if you have no intercooler. I will say that on 7 psig with the stock chips there was audible detonation...it had to be tuned out. You have to remember the stock timing upstairs on a stock S4 is like 29 degrees...that's a boatload of advance for a boosted motor. The knock sensors will only take out so much timing, after that its just going to break parts.
On the altitude, this is one place where the turbocharger shines. Since the turbos are free to spin at whatever speed they need to to make the boost you will still be able to get full boost pressure up at altitudes like that. The pressure ratio will be higher because you started with less air, so the turbos do have to work harder to bring the air up to the same manifold pressure level. No doubt the car will make more HP at sea level than it will at altitude, but I don't think it would be as drastic as the decrese you would see ith a belt driven system because they will not make the boost up at altitude that they are set for at sea level. All of the mapping for fuel is done off of MAF signal, which is basically an engine load measurement. Therefore, the system measures the mass on incoming air and then calculates the proper amount of fuel to spray in. I did have the car down in North Carolina this summer and I think up to about 5,000 feet above sea level. Full boost was still made, but you can feel less power up at those elevations. No surprises. Ask any pilot about how much harder a jet can pull and climb when the pressure is high and the temps are low and you are leaving the runway compared to at 40,000 ft.
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Kuhn Performance Technologies, LLC Big Gun: 1988 928S4 Twin Turbo, 5-SPD/LSD 572 RWHP, 579 RW ft-lbs, 12 psig manifold pressure. Stock Internals, 93 octane. Little Gun: 1981 928 Competition Package Twin Turbo, 375 RWHP, 415 RW ft-lbs, 10psig manifold pressure. Nikasil Block, JE2618 Pistons, 93 octane. |
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12-04-2007, 02:39 AM
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Location: Noblesville, In
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I'm interested in adding this, price and budget considered. I got a good look at it at SITM and enjoyed talking with you about it.
As far as the "free" system, I'm sure there are plenty of more deserving folks who have been along for the development of your system. But, how about perhaps a raffle or contest of some sort, if you choose to give one away for advertisement? Keep up the good work.
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07 Yukon Denali Blue Green Metallic, rolling on 22's 05 Jeep Laredo careened around town by child #1 06 Mustang rolling around town by child #2, in all it's bass thumping glory 88 928 S4 Black 90 928 S4 Linen Grey Metallic Sold 88 924s Black Sold 85.5 944 NA Grey Sold |
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12-04-2007, 06:57 AM
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Awesome numbers!
Any video(s) of the dyno runs?
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Andrew 06 GT Mustang 5 Spd w/20" Zenetti's 85 928S2 16v 4.7L Track Car |
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12-04-2007, 07:41 AM
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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I meant to get the camera from work (mine is old), but I didn't. The free was a comment on installation, not on a whole system...that would be one heck of a gift!!!
One guy in town here helped me quite a bit, but he has no 928, just 944 and 951. My TIG and Plasma arrived today so the workshop is nearly ready to go. It's a tidy, epoxy floored space dedicated to only this function. I still have to run some 220 lines but that's gravy train for the most part.
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Kuhn Performance Technologies, LLC Big Gun: 1988 928S4 Twin Turbo, 5-SPD/LSD 572 RWHP, 579 RW ft-lbs, 12 psig manifold pressure. Stock Internals, 93 octane. Little Gun: 1981 928 Competition Package Twin Turbo, 375 RWHP, 415 RW ft-lbs, 10psig manifold pressure. Nikasil Block, JE2618 Pistons, 93 octane. |
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12-04-2007, 07:51 AM
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A system like this for a S2 would be IDEAL for the Valley of the sun. Any thoughts of developing a kit for OB and or S2/S3?
TIA!
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Andrew 06 GT Mustang 5 Spd w/20" Zenetti's 85 928S2 16v 4.7L Track Car |
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12-04-2007, 07:56 AM
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In honor of the predecessor to this build:
Predecessor: 3. "Archaic. an ancestor; forefather". Can I interest any of you in "A Schmoke and a turbo"?  
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Kuhn Performance Technologies, LLC Big Gun: 1988 928S4 Twin Turbo, 5-SPD/LSD 572 RWHP, 579 RW ft-lbs, 12 psig manifold pressure. Stock Internals, 93 octane. Little Gun: 1981 928 Competition Package Twin Turbo, 375 RWHP, 415 RW ft-lbs, 10psig manifold pressure. Nikasil Block, JE2618 Pistons, 93 octane. Last edited by Herr-Kuhn; 12-04-2007 at 08:21 AM.. |
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12-04-2007, 08:18 AM
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I've talked about the options for the early 32V cars...it's just the manifolds would be different. Same deal on the 16V, but very possible. If there was enough demand it might become an option, but for now I'm likely to focus just on 32V S4 based.
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Kuhn Performance Technologies, LLC Big Gun: 1988 928S4 Twin Turbo, 5-SPD/LSD 572 RWHP, 579 RW ft-lbs, 12 psig manifold pressure. Stock Internals, 93 octane. Little Gun: 1981 928 Competition Package Twin Turbo, 375 RWHP, 415 RW ft-lbs, 10psig manifold pressure. Nikasil Block, JE2618 Pistons, 93 octane. |
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12-04-2007, 08:20 AM
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People often ask about the lag on the car. The delay in onset of boost is a nice feature because it makes the car very streetable. Nobody would know they are under the hood until you roast down on it and then it's all business. I know people are skeptical of the TC vs an SC route on the 928, but until you experience the TC you don't really know what you are missing. It's somewhat alluering to be able to ride and tame the car out on the street. It still gets my heart rate up when I drive it, every time I drive it.
Here's a list of why I really like turbos: Very quiet, takes about 1/3 the sound out of the exhuast Civilized cruising and boost only when you want it (wife or girlfriend isn't afraid to drive with you) Efficient turbine and compressor design...near 76% on the comprssors, more if you go larger Compensates for altitude (run same boost at 6000 ft as you do at sea level) Long-lasting devices Can adjust boost from cockpit if you want to..I have not temped myself on this one yet! Gear adjustable boost...say 6 psig in 1st and 2nd and then open it up in 3rd and above Run 87 Octane?, then turn it down...race gas, crank it back up. Packages well (small and hidden if you want it to be) A ton of mid-range power and top end potential (you have to size them right to get both) I have to give all the 928 builders/tuners credit on thier hard work. Dave Roberts, Andy Keel (one of our founding fathers), Mark Robinson, Tim Murphy (yeah, you too Schmidt), Wisconsin Todd (aka 26 psi mystery man), Dave Lomas, Carl Fausett, Marc Thomas, Louie Ott...I'm sure there are more out there too. Yes, some of us have had our differences over the years, but it is time to put this behind us and move forward in a positive manner! What has impressed me the most is the power output of the Thomas/Ott monster. He's making slightly more power than I am without any manifold pressure at all. Not that pressurizing the engine on a 928 is easy (I have in excess of 1000 hours into my development), but to make those numbers on an all-motor build is something to be very proud of. Consider if that engine was blown to one bar it would make over 1000 HP. It's mind blowing to think of the potential.
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Kuhn Performance Technologies, LLC Big Gun: 1988 928S4 Twin Turbo, 5-SPD/LSD 572 RWHP, 579 RW ft-lbs, 12 psig manifold pressure. Stock Internals, 93 octane. Little Gun: 1981 928 Competition Package Twin Turbo, 375 RWHP, 415 RW ft-lbs, 10psig manifold pressure. Nikasil Block, JE2618 Pistons, 93 octane. Last edited by Herr-Kuhn; 12-04-2007 at 08:46 AM.. |
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12-04-2007, 08:40 AM
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Congrats! Now start cranking out parts and just pull a price out of a hat! If you ever decide to provide a 'hot side' like setup for those that want to build thier own low compression motor and intake setup let me know.
It must be a treat to drive around just knowing you have a couple of turbos, imagine all the subtle sensory perceptions, ahh.    
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Mike S. 79 928 Racer 427ci 32v 640WHP |
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12-04-2007, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
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1984 928's w/ 5 speed Smoked Quartz Metalic 1982 928's Turbo w/ 5 Speed Platinum Metalic 1978 Euro Widebody w/ 5 speed Guards Red |
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12-04-2007, 12:37 PM
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Wow, very classy. Your right, you and the guys you mentioned are all in a very small and exclusive group. You all have alot more in common than you may even realize. I tip my hat to you all. 
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1984 928's w/ 5 speed Smoked Quartz Metalic 1982 928's Turbo w/ 5 Speed Platinum Metalic 1978 Euro Widebody w/ 5 speed Guards Red |
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12-04-2007, 12:42 PM
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Beer at the next 928 event? Then we can have a hatchet burial ceremony.
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Kuhn Performance Technologies, LLC Big Gun: 1988 928S4 Twin Turbo, 5-SPD/LSD 572 RWHP, 579 RW ft-lbs, 12 psig manifold pressure. Stock Internals, 93 octane. Little Gun: 1981 928 Competition Package Twin Turbo, 375 RWHP, 415 RW ft-lbs, 10psig manifold pressure. Nikasil Block, JE2618 Pistons, 93 octane. |
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12-04-2007, 01:18 PM
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I'd be more than happy to supply you with the hotside stuff...that could be done in the very near future. Those are the hard parts to make up for sure. Manifolds, turbos and the downpipes...might I also recommend the intercoolers, and plenum joiner box, then you connect the dots? All that hardware should flow past 700 crankshaft HP on the right build.
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Kuhn Performance Technologies, LLC Big Gun: 1988 928S4 Twin Turbo, 5-SPD/LSD 572 RWHP, 579 RW ft-lbs, 12 psig manifold pressure. Stock Internals, 93 octane. Little Gun: 1981 928 Competition Package Twin Turbo, 375 RWHP, 415 RW ft-lbs, 10psig manifold pressure. Nikasil Block, JE2618 Pistons, 93 octane. |
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12-04-2007, 01:23 PM
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Un-Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
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Sorry if you two chums were disappointed that this did not spark yet another drama-fest. The comments on Rennlist to this announcement have been largely positive. |
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12-04-2007, 01:23 PM
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Randy, what is your point here?
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Kuhn Performance Technologies, LLC Big Gun: 1988 928S4 Twin Turbo, 5-SPD/LSD 572 RWHP, 579 RW ft-lbs, 12 psig manifold pressure. Stock Internals, 93 octane. Little Gun: 1981 928 Competition Package Twin Turbo, 375 RWHP, 415 RW ft-lbs, 10psig manifold pressure. Nikasil Block, JE2618 Pistons, 93 octane. |
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12-04-2007, 05:51 PM
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Location: Stockton, CA
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Quote:
I am one of the lucky few that have DRIVEN Louies Monster.....at Sharks at the Lake 07...... Unforunately I didn't have the chance (or courage) to open it up...but in terms of driveability it is very tame.....basically like a slightly louder 928..... Perfectly content to put around at a leisurely pace.......not high strung at all.....
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Brian 1984 "Estate" racer 1988 928S4 Guards red over Champagne Leather (sold) Co founder of "Stockton Sharks Society" |
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12-04-2007, 08:06 PM
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Brian, that sounds a lot like my car when you keep your foot out of it. I'm sure that thing is quite a ride.
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Kuhn Performance Technologies, LLC Big Gun: 1988 928S4 Twin Turbo, 5-SPD/LSD 572 RWHP, 579 RW ft-lbs, 12 psig manifold pressure. Stock Internals, 93 octane. Little Gun: 1981 928 Competition Package Twin Turbo, 375 RWHP, 415 RW ft-lbs, 10psig manifold pressure. Nikasil Block, JE2618 Pistons, 93 octane. |
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12-05-2007, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Louie actually drove it at thunderhill in the RAIN....he is a BRAVE man....
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Brian 1984 "Estate" racer 1988 928S4 Guards red over Champagne Leather (sold) Co founder of "Stockton Sharks Society" |
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12-05-2007, 09:05 PM
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