Whats the greatest GT car ever made?

Danglerb · 04-14-2009, 09:56 AM

The question is rhetorical, the greatest GT car ever made continues to be the Porsche 928, with little indication that anything in the pipeline will be an improvement.

What other modern car has the style and performance of the 928?

Nothing I know of does remotely what the 928 does, and I think from time to time we need to remind ourselves that we are caretakers for the flagship Porsche automobile, fastest production car of its time. If we have to put up with a few problems, we still should not lose sight of the privilege that ownership is.

fb111 · 02:31 PM

I think its the Ferrari Daytona 365 GTB/4. Fast, gorgeous, exclusive, racing pedigree; finished 2nd overall @ 24hrs of Daytona as late as 1979 six years after production stopped. Did I say gorgeous and the sound and lastly it............. appreciates.
http://www.johnmortonracing.com/Tony-John_Daytona79.jpg

MrGST · 04-14-2009, 12:30 PM

If you need to seat 4 *comfortably* then nothing really compares to the Mercedes 500E sedan built from 1991 to 1995 but only imported into the U.S. in 1992, 1993, and 1994. It's about as quick and fast as a 928 S4 (auto) and has fantastic build quality. Current cost to acquire is roughly the same as S4 to GT depending on condition with a few, ultra low mileage, museum pieces commanding nice GTS 5-speed prices.

For 2-door models, I can think of several modern cars that easily surpass the 928 if you can stomach the cost. Aston Martin V8 Vantage, Audi R8, and maybe BMW's 6-series/M6. If you think about it though, the 928 does compare favorably to these modern cars, says a lot about how great the 928 was and is.

MPDano · MPDano's Garage

Funny you say the R8. I saw one of those in La Jolla as I was about to get on the 52 Highway. I didn't recognize it until I saw the weird Christmas lights and awesome looking grill.

FYI, I was in front of it only because he was entering from the side street and not because I drive a fast car. Those things are ferocious.

xpress · 01:22 PM

Please, the Ferrari Testarossa 512- most beautiful car ever produced.

MrGST · 04-14-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpress

Please, the Ferrari Testarossa 512- most beautiful car ever produced.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the Testarossa is an exotic; grand tourer - not so much.

xpress · 04-14-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGST

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the Testarossa is an exotic; grand tourer - not so much.

Maybe, but I own 2 928's and a MB SL600 and would trade all three plus cash for a 512 Testarossa.

Danglerb · 04-14-2009, 03:08 PM

Those cars fall through my fingers like so much sand, they simply don't do what the 928 does. They each may exceed the 928 in some area, but not in the overall balance.

I tend to agree the hot MB sedans are great cars, but I don't see one as a replacement for a 5 spd 928, maybe an AT 928, more as something to consider as I get too old to have fun in a car.

Most of the Ferrari models are just too common around Orange county, and while stylish, I don't see any of them having as much influence as the 928.

Raw beauty, nothing has impressed me as much the first Muira S I saw, white with black trim and interior, so hot, so elegant, so not for me. ;(

fb111 · 04-14-2009, 04:41 PM

The Ferrari Daytona is faster, and it was a late 60's design that did over 170. It is probably the most muscular front engined V12 ever made. Its cherished by Ferrari owners and other Marques and it has a successful racing career. The only area a 928 might exceed the Daytona is its ability to be a daily driver. If I owned a Daytona today I certainly wouldn't consider using it that way.
http://www.johnmortonracing.com/Tony-John_Daytona79.jpg
If my memory serves me right the Daytona, has a rear transaxle so maybe its the 928 that copied this layout.

EIPtuningR32 · EIPtuningR32's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danglerb

Raw beauty, nothing has impressed me as much the first Muira S I saw, white with black trim and interior, so hot, so elegant, so not for me. ;(

haha... funny yet depressing.

MPDano · MPDano's Garage

You mean this car?

Danglerb · 04-14-2009, 06:48 PM

Except in white with black trim and interior, and not a picture but sitting there 5 feet in front of me, and looking like the roof came about to my knee.

fb111 · 04-14-2009, 07:01 PM

20 years ago a member of the Aston Martin Owners Club brought his Black Muira SV, the final development of the Muira and most desireable, to the clubs outing at Lime Rock. He owned quite a few exotics that he drove hard and didn't covet. Well, he was beating the crap out of that poor car and black smoke would waffle out of the louvered rear window area as he repeatedly overrevved it with each downshift. The Muira was the first and argueably the most beautiful mid engined car ever. However, a mid engined two seater by definition is not a GT car.

MrGST · 04-14-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb111

However, a mid engined two seater by definition is not a GT car.

What's your definition of a GT?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_tourer

911blex · 04-14-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb111

I think its the Ferrari Daytona 365 GTB/4. Fast, gorgeous, exclusive, racing pedigree; finished 2nd overall @ 24hrs of Daytona as late as 1979 six years after production stopped. Did I say gorgeous and the sound and lastly it............. appreciates.
http://www.johnmortonracing.com/Tony-John_Daytona79.jpg

I had the pleasure of rallying around the Monterey Peninsula in a Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona once and was so awestruck by it I can see why you and many others view them as a "legendary GT". Although not nearly as beautiful as a Daytona, I consider the 365 GTC/4 (Daytona's 2+2 brother) to be a superior GT as it has power steering and other "creature comforts" that make it much more enjoyable to drive over long distances. I have come to really appreciate what a 365 GTC/4 has to offer after having owned a 1967 330 GT 2+2 with no a/c and no p/s. However, I consider both the Daytona and 365 GTC/4 to be my favorite "vintage GTs".

To me comparing a "vintage GT" to a "modern GT" is like comparing apples to oranges as they are just too different from each other. I consider the Porsche 928, Ferrari Testarossa, and Ferrari 550/575 Maranello to be my favorite "modern GTs" as the are all very unique in their own ways and are all very comfortable to take on long drives.

911blex · 04-14-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb111

The Miura was the first and argueably the most beautiful mid engined car ever. However, a mid engined two seater by definition is not a GT car.

There is no way a Miura can be considered a GT as its horrible interior ergonomics, poor interior ventilation, and the "sensory overload" from its engine make it very uncomfortable quickly. It is no different than a Countach in that you can't drive it very long before you are "spent". IMO, the Miura and Countach are pure exotics in a class of their own.

fb111 · 04-14-2009, 08:16 PM

My definition of a Gt car would be the paragraph in the wikipedia article that specifies characteristics. Front engined, 2 + 2 seating with space for luggage. The 250 GTO thats pictured is not a GT car. That to me is a shortened wheelbase car that probably doesn't even have a trunk. I think the trunk space is occupied by a large aluminum gas tank. They were purpose built race cars. I'm a bit more familiar with old Astons. A DB4 or DB5 Aston would be considered a wonderful GT car while the short wheelbase DB4GT would not. It too like the 250 GTO was designed as a race car. The DB4GT was a 2 seater with a huge aluminum gas tank occupying the rear trunk space. Zero luggage space in a DB4GT.

MrGST · 08:28 PM

I guess my definition is a bit broader. The first sentence in the Wiki sums it up pretty well:
"A grand tourer (Italian: gran turismo) (GT) is a high-performance luxury automobile designed for long-distance driving."

I guess this narrows it down a little:
"The most common format is a two-door coupé with either a two-seat or a 2+2 arrangement."

But I don't see anything that would exclude a mid-engine car (in practice)...and for me, 4-door sedans qualify as well. But that's just me.

fb111 · 04-14-2009, 08:31 PM

I tend to categorize mid engined cars as exotics. Kind of an exercise where the manufacturers push the envelop and showcase their engineering. Noisier and stiffer, something you would love to drive for a couple hours thru a rural setting. Not something you'd enjoy driving down 95 and get caught in traffic surrounding DC or NYC. I think you would have a hard time putting a set of golf clubs in any mid engined exotic unless your flying solo.

MrGST · 04-14-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb111

I tend to categorize mid engined cars as exotics. Kind of an exercise where the manufacturers push the envelop and showcase their engineering. Noisier and stiffer, something you would love to drive for a couple hours thru a rural setting. Not something you'd enjoy driving down 95 and get caught in traffic surrounding DC or NYC. I think you would have a hard time putting a set of golf clubs in any mid engined exotic unless your flying solo.

l agree that many/most mid-engine cars are "exotic", MR2, Fiero excepted, but current cars like the R8, Gallardo, and F360/F430 are very GT'ish...the R8 in particular. They are comfortable, fast, handle great and can be used as daily drivers (assuming you can afford them). They can all carry luggage for two for a weekend.