Bootleg shop manuals on ebay and CL, report them

[Danglerb]

Copies of the workshop manuals on ebay and Craigslist really irk me, so I am asking everyone to take a moment when you see them and report or flag them.

Ebay
Near the top on the right side listings have a block of information with the sellers name, links to store or list, and just below that a link to "REPORT ITEM". Its now a simplified procedure with drop down choices and the offending listing number already filled in. Select bootlegs and copyrights, then CDR media.

Craigslist
Top right of listing, select flag as PROHIBITED from the drop down menu.

Why?
Sellers are stealing either the work of Jim Morehouse who did all the original scanning and OCR of the text and still offers a CD cheaper than the ebay copies, or the seller has made a copy of the .pdf files that can be downloaded free from a UK site (a bit fuzzy, non text scans of old microfiche manuals).

Bonus fun.
Several of the sellers off counterfeit cdr manuals for a number of products, report them all.

[phigreg]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

Copies of the workshop manuals on ebay and Craigslist really irk me, so I am asking everyone to take a moment when you see them and report or flag them.

Ebay
Near the top on the right side listings have a block of information with the sellers name, links to store or list, and just below that a link to "REPORT ITEM". Its now a simplified procedure with drop down choices and the offending listing number already filled in. Select bootlegs and copyrights, then CDR media.

Craigslist
Top right of listing, select flag as PROHIBITED from the drop down menu.

Why?
Sellers are stealing either the work of Jim Morehouse who did all the original scanning and OCR of the text and still offers a CD cheaper than the ebay copies, or the seller has made a copy of the .pdf files that can be downloaded free from a UK site (a bit fuzzy, non text scans of old microfiche manuals).

Bonus fun.
Several of the sellers off counterfeit cdr manuals for a number of products, report them all.

Although I appreciate the work that was done to produce the workshop CD's, I think we still have to remember that those CD's are still copies of copyrighted Porsche workshop manuals
I may be wrong but I doubt that anyone obtained permission from Porsche to scan and OCR their workshop manuals and then sell them.

In all likelihood all of them are illegal
Greg Phillips

[Normy]

I paid $375 for my 9-volume set of workshop manuals.

I also keep an internet-purchased copy of these on CD in my rear trunk.

========

Listen Danglerb, I appreciate your thoughts, and all your posts on here. But that set of manuals? There are perhaps 20,000 of the 58,000 928's ever built still on the road. The first 928 was sold in 1978, 31 years ago, and the last was sold in 1995, 14 years ago.

It occurs to me that Porsche AG has made its money from this design, and us enthusiasts have only added to their pile of gold. I think everyone should buy the WSM's in paper when they buy a 928, simply because the laptop version is cumbersome. I keep my paper copies next to my 928 in the garage, and it is a typical day when I get home from a drive to Publix, and pull my books from my shelve to try to understand why the [insert name of malfunctioning accessory HERE-] isn't working.

I still keep a renegade copy of the WSM's in case I encounter a wayward 928 owner with no clue; In 10 years of 928 ownership I've only run across ONE person who had no idea what the WSM's are. I gave him a copy, and told him to buy the real thing.

He looked at me, and then said "so this is a CD of the owners' manual? I have the owners manual in the glove compartment. Why do I need this?"

Hmm. Yeah, he looked kind of stupid~

N!

[Danglerb]

Why flag or report?

Paying people who add nothing hurt the whole 928 community. If you want more manuals scanned, CDs updated, new manuals created, the money needs to go to the people putting in the work.

If you don't want to compensate the people doing the real work, you can get the manuals free via bit torrent or a download site in the UK. Paying the ebay and CL parasites is just throwing money in the trash. No practical way to get that information out to everybody, so to protect fellow 928 owners from throwing money away, report or flag.

Copyright is up to Porsche, and not an issue for me.

[Arizona_928]

I think Normy summed it up.

[Danglerb]

All this requires is a few seconds time of a few people and the ebay and CL ads will be gone. Once the ads are gone search engines will show real support sites like this one instead of the ads, and new owners will get real help instead of fleeced.

[vdubr928]

I'm torn here. I agree that the guys selling this material are giving you the bonus without the US, I also kindof take the "We are all friends here" approach. If I was in your town and you needed to say... Pull a motor or.... replace some front end parts.... I would be there. I wouldn't ask for money. I would treat you like a friend that needed help. I might say, "you buy the beer".... Cause that's the way I am. but, I don't want your money. I have a day job and I do alright. This is my hobby. If you were my friend and had a pirated copy (which is what all scanned cd's are) of the manuals and wouldn't give me access so I could fix my car.... Well, I have to be honest.... I would be pissed with you. I do agree that ANYONE profiting from a stolen/unlicensed product should be stopped. I also think the manuals should be available to any and all who need them. My local dealer (Colorado Springs) said flat out... ."We really don't work on 928's anymore... We will... But it will cost you" (as if regular price wasn't enough) To me these maunals are shareware. Stolen... outdated..... and out of production.....


I'd say anybody need a copy... But, I like being a part of this community. Anybody In Colorado need a hand getting a car running? I'm there.

(You buy the beer)

My 2 cents.

[rjm65]

Originally Posted by vdubr928

To me these maunals are shareware. Stolen... outdated..... and out of production.....

A better term would probably be abandonware.

The thing about the CD's for sale on Ebay is that's the place a potential or new 928 owner is going to look first. That's what happened to me a year and a half ago, I ordered a CD for something under $10, and while it was in transit discovered the UK site. All moot because the car came with it's own burned CD copy too.

[Danglerb]

I've got no real issue with people getting the stuff free, just the parasites that try to charge the uninformed with nothing coming back to the community.

[vdubr928]

Yeah, I'm on board with this. The guys selling this stuff to support their 928 businesses are at least supporting a good cause. Plus they are there helping us. Not just taking our money.

I'm jelous Normy. I want a full print set.

[MPDano]

Eh, who cares. Let em try and sell them. A quick Google search will bring up various sources for free anyways.

[american-kiwi]

$200.00-400.00 for a set of manuals...or a set of CD's for $9.95....guess which one i bought....sorry mike...i did down load the one's from the UK (free) but its missing some parts

[rjm65]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

I've got no real issue with people getting the stuff free, just the parasites that try to charge the uninformed with nothing coming back to the community.

Kinda like the guys that buy electronics for the rebate then resell the stuff on ebay without the upc code.

[MPDano]

Originally Posted by rjm65

Kinda like the guys that buy electronics for the rebate then resell the stuff on ebay without the upc code.

Hey! I resemble that remark

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by american-kiwi

$200.00-400.00 for a set of manuals...or a set of CD's for $9.95....guess which one i bought....sorry mike...i did down load the one's from the UK (free) but its missing some parts

If only someone had reported the ebay scammer and gotten that listing removed you might have found us sooner and we could have told you the bit torrent has the complete version.

[XLR8928]

Does anyone out there have an extra, old dogeared set of manuals to sell at reasonable cost? I have a cd, and a #&*@$!! chiltons book, but neither is a substitute for the real thing.

Regards, Kerry

[Dan951]

The CD copies I have allow me to search when I found much easier than using my greasy fingers to get those $400 shop manuals all nasty. We have a computer out the in the garage strictly for this reason.

I also work on my own cars. If I can't work on it myself I won't buy it. Have been ripped off to many times my incompetent mechanics. I haven't been to a mechanic in over 10 years. T-belts and torque tubes are easy jobs on these car.. just take your time!

[MPDano]

Originally Posted by Dan951

The CD copies I have allow me to search when I found much easier than using my greasy fingers to get those $400 shop manuals all nasty. We have a computer out the in the garage strictly for this reason.

I also work on my own cars. If I can't work on it myself I won't buy it. Have been ripped off to many times my incompetent mechanics. I haven't been to a mechanic in over 10 years. T-belts and torque tubes are easy jobs on these car.. just take your time!

Yeah, I just print out the page I am working on the car. No biggie if I finger paint on it

[Danglerb]

I paid about $15 to have Kinko's print all the electrical diagrams for the years of cars I have in 17x30 inch pages.

[JhwShark]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

Copies of the workshop manuals on ebay and Why?
Sellers are stealing either the work of Jim Morehouse who did all the original scanning and OCR of the text and still offers a CD cheaper than the ebay copies, or the seller has made a copy of the .pdf files that can be downloaded free from a UK site (a bit fuzzy, non text scans of old microfiche manuals).

Bonus fun.
Several of the sellers off counterfeit cdr manuals for a number of products, report them all.

Dangler,
Do you have Jim's contact info? I had his AZ phone number in a 928 Intl catalog but can not locate it.

Thanks,
Jon