Almighty Roar From Motor After 3.5 Years but....

2Quick4u928 · 01-21-2010, 03:17 PM

Hello all...
Some great news for those that have been following my slow project;

Latin America Porsche Import ie 928 Damage Repairs

I finally heard the sweet roar from the motor and followed suggestion of a few (MPDano in particular), for a video of, this I completed & will upload.

Will finish out the project above with more detail....This was the positive. THE Negative side of the house has to do with the stretched crank bolt that I had a hell of a time to remove (See Pg 2 near bottom of page for details)...In measuring both bolts side by side I thinking I was actually very lucky to get that ***** removed. I cleaned very well inside of the crank and took much time methotically to work the threads, back off then a few more turns again while same time much lubricant and cleaning of the threads...Final product with other bolt seemed a success.

This evening while I desire to run the motor to operating temp and checking guages...there was a slight metalic noise from very front of motor. Know what you all are thinking but that is negative thoughts...In addition was no problems with the motor before removal!!

Question for those who have installed the PKsn'r...will this major pulley be a bit louder upon operation? Is there a possibility I may have a bad pulley on the new water pump? Any see any problems with everything installed prior to cover installation & reassembly? Tossing some thoughts out there from the experienced ones....
Also during operation this noise began to get louder, then the was a lose belt wine that began. Immediately shut the girl down. Found the large pulley was not very snug but had some play in it telling me this "Torqued" (See pic) bolt was not seated 100%. I have not disassembled anything as yet (SUCKS!!), but I will run the tap through once again, but I seem to recall this bottomed out telling me the end of the shaft (For the bolt) had been reached..NOW I thinking the possibility of a piece of the old bolt remains inside (Perhaps 1/2 thread to 1 thread of the bolt). I will use a scribe to see if I am able to knock anything out, if not can I add 1 washer to the original thick one already on the bolt? I am thinking yes and with no problem. No desire loc-Tite on the bolt as the next guy would be screwed like I thought I was in the beginning. Thank in advance all....

After clean-up of threads;

Anyone foresee am problems with this install of parts (I.E. Waterpump, TB, Lwr Rollers, PKsn'r), etc

MPDano · MPDano's Garage

Can't wait to see the Video. Youtube it!

Mrmerlin · 01-21-2010, 04:15 PM

if you remove the AC pulley then the thick washer under the crank bolt may not be deep enough to clamp the pulleys together.
From your picture the thrust washer is not yet installed on the front of the timing gear and it does look like you have the crank bolt washer installed correctly

2Quick4u928 · 04:30 PM

" From your picture the thrust washer is not yet installed on the front of the timing gear and it does look like you have the crank bolt washer installed correctly."

Thx will check the bolt washer, I do not remember, may need to add a washer if correct placement of the cutout.
The thrust washer is installed but behind the gear...should not make any difference I believe correct?

The PKsn'r (Roller), these will make a bit of noise or no? Perhaps the noise was from the loose pulley.

Thanks guys!!

Barbapapa · 05:14 PM

Pat, your endeavors are fun to follow!

Here's how the pulleys stack on the crank snout. You can see why the washer has to be stepped to be able to clamp.
It would be good to get ahold of a tap to clean the crank threads. That bolt being tight is important. Loctite would have no effect(new pic below)

Mrmerlin · 01-21-2010, 05:02 PM

note the 2 flanges next to the timing belt gear these are the thrust washers.
one in the back and one in the front.
Whats missing from that picture is the big black pulley for the alt,PS and air pump

Barbapapa · 01-21-2010, 05:14 PM

Doh'!
Here it is with that pulley

Mrmerlin · 01-22-2010, 10:06 AM

NOTE there are 2 thrust washers on the timing belt gear they provide a guide for the belt so it wont contact the rear of the crank damper or hit the rear engine cover behind the belt,
There must be 2 of these washers fitted as noted above

Damstrom · Damstrom's Garage

Just confirming there must be two washers (one behind, one in front) of the pulley supplied with the PKsion'r. The pulley will come in contact with the lever if there isn't one behind. Reutterwerk Forums - View Single Post - New Level of 928 wrenching

Sounds like additional challenges with the crank bolt also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Quick4u928

Question for those who have installed the PKsn'r...will this major pulley be a bit louder upon operation? Is there a possibility I may have a bad pulley on the new water pump? Any see any problems with everything installed prior to cover installation & reassembly? Tossing some thoughts out there from the experienced ones....

2Quick4u928 · 01-24-2010, 03:56 PM

Thanks guys once again...more to look into. Pulled the crank bolt off today and yes the washer was inverted with the grove facing the bolt instead of toward the motor....

Am looking more into the issues meantioned above in regards to the thrust washers & Pksn'r install...Did follow the PK instructions to a tee so now I am really wondering...more to follow!

2Quick4u928 · 01-25-2010, 12:09 AM

Early in am, was looking through the box's for the Pksn'r and assoc. hardware and noted 0 washers, am pretty sure assembled correctly but will verify this evening and in addition see if I can get up there enough to measure the piston.

And as Merlin stated above, suppose to be 2 thrust (Coller) washers on either side of this gear (Section 15 PET). I do not remember 2 coming off at all (Possible 1 was always missing) as I removed in order and immediately replaced after the seal replacement. Will have a look also this evening & if possibly not finding then will remove from the bad motor (Yes nice having spares even if costly!!).

Mrmerlin · 01-25-2010, 01:24 PM

the rear thrust washer will stay in place unless you take it off, to get it off the timing gear has to be removed first, if you didnt remove the timing gear then you take off the rear thrust washer.......... BUT you should check to make sure there is one in place

2Quick4u928 · 01-26-2010, 11:19 AM

Will conclude this out with my finding and a little education for those who have not attempted as yet as to what to look for (Double check)...

Monday completed all and am re-installing the parts....The PKsn'r was perfect and yes both washers were visible, Water pump pulley seems ok as with the lower rollers & TB, and also "TWO" Collar washers were in place (I could not remember hehe) on either-side of the TB gear. Only major issue I noticed immediately was as stated here, the damn crank bolt washer was inverted with the countersunk facing the bolt head. You can see the damage this was beginning to do in the pics, and is always good to check, double check & triple check all parts before moving the car.

Am about to use compressed air to thoroughly clean the metal particles from within the TB area and install. Did see a piece of very fine rubber material, thinking this may be from the belt settling in and may be the very, very edge...who knows, but the belt looks super and tension continues proper!!

Thanks all for your inputs & assistance. Learned a bit more from yall'

Proper positioning of Crank Bolt Washer with countersink facing motor

Accessory pulley reversed showing major wear internally, need to blend

Aft Pulley showing some wear

C. Shaft looking good, view o/internals incl fwd Collar Washer fwd of TB Gear

Closer view of metal shavings, & what looks like a very fine piece of rubber particle (??), have cleared utilizing compressed air!!

Lastly, proper positioning of C. Bolt washer with countersink facing motor...The extra spacing of the countersink will snug the bolt against the outer acc pulley when properly torqued preventing the hastle you see above....

Damstrom · Damstrom's Garage

Pat...looking at your picture (and not a perfect science always

) wondering if your crank washers are oriented correctly:

cheers
Stefan

porken · 01-26-2010, 01:06 PM

Good eye, Stefan.

The rear washer is backwards. This will eat the timing belt in short order.

Belts are relatively inexpensive, I would replace it.

2Quick4u928 · 01-26-2010, 04:58 PM

Good point guys....I agree, great attention to detail Stefan, is why I have not torqued the bolt as yet, desired to see if missing anything further that was critical...!! Did notice very tight tollerance with everything though, well thought of in a way.

Now I see much clearer the orientation of this drawing, easy fix. Will have a look at the total belt, but so far lookin' good. Desired to have another look at the tension (with guage) anyhow before securing everything. These points addressed should be highlighted in the manual but we all know they are not, major, major issues later especially with our 32V's.

Barbapapa · 01-26-2010, 06:02 PM

The reason that big washer is countersunk is and installed very tight is becasue it's the only thing keeping the accesory pulley from spinning.

It looks like yours has spun and done damage.

The hole in that pulley looks eaten up and is not usable, you need a new pulley from the looks of it.
Hopefully the tip of the crankshaft isn't worn and a new pulley will fit with no slop.

2Quick4u928 · 01-27-2010, 05:47 AM

Actually the C. Shaft OD was fine including the internal threads (Was my concern earlier due to the spinning of the parts, only the inverted washer on the bolt was the cause). The pulley cleaned up fine and was a tight fit back on the C. Shaft.

I was looking at the tolerances all around such as these collar washers, the timing arm that mounts on the water pump etc in correlation with the TB routing.

Work begins on the collar washer (repositioning), crank gear work here shortly. Thanks for your input, is well appreciated!!

2Quick4u928 · 01-27-2010, 02:27 PM

May be a foolish question...I have everything locked down & marked, PKsn'r piston retracted (Pressure off the TB), but there will not be a way to remove that gear without disassembling everything over again correct?

Damstrom · Damstrom's Garage

Correct, you need to remove the damper, crank gear and turn the rear crank washer the correct way. Maybe put a fresh belt just in case the washer lip somehow damaged the belt also?