My '83 928 Grandpop to the Cayenne

[Fixer]

Just an observation:

I owned a 2004 Cayenne S which i used as a daily work and tow vehicle.

It did everything well in my eyes and i miss it much.

When i finally bought a 928 it struck me that it felt so much like my Cayenne.

The 928 rear wiper mechanism is virtually identical..

[Danglerb]

Porsche puts its mark on everything in the cars they make, they way things look and feel, etc.

[Fixer]

They sure do,

I had never driven a 928 before, and on the long drive back after buying the car, i was struck by how modern and rigid it felt. It by no means felt like a 29 year old car. It felt like my Cayenne.

I wonder if anyone has put a modern Porsche V8 into an early 928..

[tychain99]

there was a motor swap thread on here a while and someone mentioned the idea of the cayenne motor swap. There was a big debate about putting an american motor in and whether or not it ruins the car.

If I had the option, and wanted to stay euro.. Volvo s60 R motor... my buddy has an S60r, and that things ripppps. SO smooth, so fast.

[924CarreraGTP]

It was I who mentioned the Cayenne swap. I think it would need a bit of fabrication in the oil pan department though. I'd do it a hundred times before putting a trashy American V8 Corvette engine in it though. You might as well just have it crushed if you're going to do that because it will have zero value to people like me.

[not_hans_stuck]

Hmmm. As a guy putting an LS engine in my Porsche, I'm just wondering exactly what it is that makes the LS engine trashy?

I see it as a modern, compact, lightweight (under 400lbs) engine that can produce anywhere from 400 to 700 horsepower normally aspirated. There's a ton of aftermarket support for it and hundreds of people that can make them run.

What was that the one guy suggested, a Volvo engine? Seriously? That makes no sense at all. Where's your choice of cams? Where's your choice of intake manifolds, who knows how to make one of those make horsepower? How big is it? Same goes for Mercedes and Audi engines. Now, I have a Mercedes. My E550 is stunning. That engine is as smooth as glass and silent. It's like riding a wave when you step on the gas. But lets face it, my 160,000 mile Suburban with the Cast Iron LS derivative engine is FAR more reliable and infinitely more tunable. I could double the horsepower a simple swap of heads and cam.

I think your knee jerk reaction is that American V8's are low tech dinosaurs but that isn't true. We make good stuff, be proud of it. The LS is THE most compact powerplant you can buy. It's plentiful, it's cheap and it has the same exhaust note as a 928.

GM built four-cam engines - the Aurora v8, Cadillac Northstar, and the LT5 in the C5 ZR1. They seem to have finally rejected those architectures in favor of the simpler and cheaper LS design. IMHO, that was the right thing to do. All that stuff they said about pushrods appears to have been without merit. The NASCAR guys are pushing 8,000 RPM on a regular basis. Lingenfelter and crankshaft manufacturers like Sonny Bryant are making flat plane cranks for them so they even sound like Ferraris if you want.

The technologies that make power and that you should be looking at are the head configurations. The domestic V8 guys have a gigantic aftermarket for heads, cams, crankshafts and pistons that the Euro guys just don't have. Try buying a hotrod cam for a Cayenne or a Mercedes. I don't know of any! Webcams might be able to make something up for you but who knows. I can name a dozen cam manufacturers for domestic engines - I bet you even know some - think Edelbrock and Isky. Isky's been making cams for domestic V8's longer than Porsche has even existed.

Porsche is cool. I love Porsche. I will always have a Porsche - or two. But don't discount our own contributions to the automotive world. Chevy makes the best engines in the world when you factor power, weight and cost. Put that motor in the best car in the world - Porsche - and you really have something.

Sorry. I'm handing back the soap box now.

Hal

[Maleficio]

Well said.

[Fixer]

It is true that no matter how much more power the Vette motor makes, it doesn't belong in a Porsche in most Porsche people's minds.

'Takin that Porsche and Chevin it' always got under my skin when i saw the ads in Excellence or Panorama, then again i am a Ford guy when it comes to American cars and trucks. You may as well just drive an older Vette and put the LS motor in it..

Peterbuilts have CAT motors and Dodge Rams have Cummins, but those are trucks built for work, Porsche is a premium sports car manufacturer like Ferrari.

Flip it: What about an older Corvette with a modern Porsche motor in it, makes no sense.

I guess its a Porsche purist thing, i feel the same way (rather have the modern Porsche V8 transplant),
It's like it degrades the 928 in a way (not because of Chevy just because) whether that makes any sense or not. Probably doesn't to non purists and that is not a bad thing.

Cayenne Turbo motors can put that out 700+++ BHP and equal Torque with mods BTW. They do not need cam upgrades they use variable valve technology to get the most out of the motor at a given rpm. Porsche exhausts for a long time are as good as you need they are so well thought out. I truly believe Porsche builds a better modern motor. Not a crazy idea when one can buy a solid 928 for so cheap

GM does build nice motors, but I'd rather do the Cayenne V8 Turbo in my 928 given the choice. Cost would change that.
Panamera is the same motor and wire harness BTW. Very good topic of discussion.

[924CarreraGTP]

The Fixer, you are my new best friend. I would rather sit in a dirty old 928 that doesn't run rather than a new Queervette. lol Porsche DOES build a better modern motor as they did with the original 928 motor in 1983. I'm often blown away with how refined and smooth even my 1970 911 is. I've driven 1970's Corvettes that I wouldn't give a squirt of pee for. The Porsche name has been creating state of the art racing machinery since the early 1930's and before even. You must realize that Ferdinand Porsche designed the Auto Union race cars and the Mercedes SS and SSK racers.
I see Ferdinand Porsche in every Mercedes Benz that rolls into my garage. That little bit of spark that he brought to Daimler Benz has lasted them a couple of lifetimes.
So why would you bastardize that unique heritage with a Chevy engine? I've blown up Chevy engines and one of the last times it was a 350 and that piece of trash spiked 400 degrees in a matter of about ten seconds. So you can keep that trash and put it in your Porsche all you want, but in my opinion you might as well be filling the engine compartment with cow ***t. The Cayenne engine is a much better idea and one could walk proud knowing that you have done a nice state of the art upgrade rather than a cost effective chop job.

[Fixer]

Let's not forget Ferdinand Porsche was also voted 'The Engineer of the Century' a few years back.
That award was not limited to automotive Engineers either.
The man's head was the size of a basketball.

In 1983 a 928 and even a 911 would smoke a 1983 Vette.
The Vette motor was bigger than my 3.2L 911 motor but would not spool up as quickly.
Man 911 motors make torque, like a tractor..
My friend had a early 80s Vette and the power in them, just as with the US model 928s was way down
do to our glorious leaders in DC.
I don't like knocking America though, we make some serious motors as well, but don't stuff em in a Porsche.

[cajun]

Hey Fixer, just an FYI - there is no such thing as a 1983 vette. That's the only year they did not make them since '53. There is only 1 in existence and it's in the museum.

I own both makes. They are different and that's good. I really do think that before you bash a LS based motor you should actually go out and drive one.

I think what makes the swap so attractive to so many people is the weight, aftermarket support, cheap hp, anybody can work on it, and any parts house can get you parts. Don't get me wrong, I'm a pcar guy but you gotta give credit where credit is due...

As for Mercedes, they haven't built a car worth owning in 20 years. Talk about a piece of shiet...

[Fixer]

Hey cajun, regarding 83 Vette not being available, who cares this is a Porsche forum not a Chevy forum.

Just substitute 84 each time i mentioned an 83 Vette.

And i never bashed the LS motor, I just wouldn't ever take my Porch and Chev it..

Understand?

[not_hans_stuck]

Sorry. I was put forawhile. I was busy replacing my heavy antique 200hp flat 6 with an ls1.

Id just like to point out that all your arguments are based on comparisons of antiques. You cant tell me that the reason you wouldnt put an ls1 engine in a 928 is becauae the 350 sucks. Or because the 70 corvette was a pig. Of course they were. What does that have to do with anything?

After ypuve swapped an ls engine. And id pick a 600 hp 427 ls7 by the way, close the hood and drive. The only difference, with the hood closed, is the extra power. Thats all im saying.

And sorry fir the horrible typing. Whats up with thisnew ipad keyboard. Sheesh.

[Fixer]

This post started as an observation i made driving a 928 for the fist time after owning a CayenneS for years. Why do these LS motor conversion comments keep popping into other discussions?

[not_hans_stuck]

Mostly its just me stirring the pot. Sorry. It is fun though, don't you think?

[Jon B.]

I never thought my Cayenne was in any shape, fashion, or form similar to my 928.

Not even close.

[Fixer]

The first generation Cayenne is way heavy and could have used aluminum doors like the 928. The front fender wheel arch shape above the wheel is sooo similar btwn the two models. The rear quarter bulge too. The hood sides are curvy on the Cayenne but the leading edge and the way it ends into the facia, Cool how the styling is so linear and reminiscent of the 928 and the 996 Carrera.
While driving back from Va in the 928 in pitch dark it just felt like my 2004 Cayenne S, the steering feel, its solid body, it sounded like it too, but then my Cayenne S had a modified exhaust.

[mikeesik]

I and my Son are looking for a 2003-2006 Cayenne(s) or maybe Turbo for this winter. Provided upon the payments.

I am curious about these SUV's.
The ones my Son and I both dig are not close to here!!!

[mikeesik]

Originally Posted by not_hans_stuck

Mostly its just me stirring the pot. Sorry. It is fun though, don't you think?

It is what may eventually make discussions great.....for everyone.......................................... ......almost.

[Fixer]

Early Cayennes are great all around vehicles, you'll get 14 City/22-24 Highway. They are fun, solid and will go anywhere. Make sure it had its coolant pipes done. I had to do mine they are down in the V and it takes about 9 hours to do it carefully.
Also make sure the P.O. changed the oil more frequently than Porsche reccomended (10k miles) I would do mine every 5k because of the ethanol in fuel.
I know a Cayenne tech who works at Don Rosen Porsche and he said they have no issues other than the coolant pipes and oil changes. He told me he sees some Cayennes with infrequent oil change history coming in with the pistons slapping due to cylinder wall wash out (ethanol)
Thank you Al Gore.