Good writeup for S3 intake refresh?

[dtw]

Hey all - I'm back for more abuse. After a few more months of driving my 928 and working out the bugs, I got tired of the high, smelly idle and mid-range hesitation. Sure enough, my intake is leaking like a sieve. I contacted Roger at 928S R Us and we went shopping. The 928 is up on the lift, my parts are laid out on the cart, and I'm ready to get started tomorrow. First up will be a leakdown test, just to make sure the engine doesn't have any other issues that need to be addressed. I'd really feel silly putting an intake refresh job on top of bad head gaskets or burnt valves...

On to my question - does anyone know where I can find a nice writeup of the S3 intake refresh job? It seems like I can find some great documents for the 16V job and the S4/GT job - but getting a writeup tailored to the S3 is more elusive. Mike Frye's writeup is nowhere to be find (I contact Mike directly, and he is looking for it). I do have the factory manuals, also.

I'll try to take some decent pictures and post my progress here in this thread.

[153bigblock]

Originally Posted by dtw

Hey all - I'm back for more abuse. After a few more months of driving my 928 and working out the bugs, I got tired of the high, smelly idle and mid-range hesitation. Sure enough, my intake is leaking like a sieve. I contacted Roger at 928S R Us and we went shopping. The 928 is up on the lift, my parts are laid out on the cart, and I'm ready to get started tomorrow. First up will be a leakdown test, just to make sure the engine doesn't have any other issues that need to be addressed. I'd really feel silly putting an intake refresh job on top of bad head gaskets or burnt valves...

On to my question - does anyone know where I can find a nice writeup of the S3 intake refresh job? It seems like I can find some great documents for the 16V job and the S4/GT job - but getting a writeup tailored to the S3 is more elusive. Mike Frye's writeup is nowhere to be find (I contact Mike directly, and he is looking for it). I do have the factory manuals, also.

I'll try to take some decent pictures and post my progress here in this thread.

This thread got me started: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-forum/371195-86-5-intake-r-and-r-complete-my-impressions.html

My thread re refresh: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-forum/638615-my1985-intake-refresh-etc-now-complete.html

You might want to consider shooting Mike Frye a PM over on Rennlist. He has a word document that covers the 85-86 intake refresh. 85-86 Top End Refresh write-up available for download - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Here are my thoughts:

Unfortunately, I did not do a write up. I found the job pretty straight forward. The only things that hung me up were the ordering of the TPS and Crank Position sensor wires and the repainting of the intake piping and plenum.

Roger has all of the parts, including diagrams for fuel line and vacuum line replacement.

I did not do the cam towers as mine were not leaking (still aren't) and those bolts are a booger from what I understand.

Lots of plastic baggies for the various sections.

What I did:
Repaint intake and plenum (already peeling)
Intake gaskets
Replace fuel lines
Replace vacuum lines
Replace injector seals
Replace both MAF Orings
Replace ISV
Replace TPS and TPS harness
Replace intake tube rubber connectors
Replace crank position sensor
Replace spark plugs and wires
Replace oil filler neck gaskets. Use Hondabond for a sealent (per Mrmerlin).
Clean valley
Replace thermostat seal (also did a TB, WP and belt change separately)
Replace EGR hoses (at least the ones that were still available).

Should have dones:
Cleaned but did not reseal the throttle body (mine whistles a tiny bit)
Should have replaced all of the injector wire harnesses with Bosch kit (on the list).

I used rags to cover up the holes to the combustion chamber. I used a bent nose long needle nosed pliers and some 3M scuff pads and WD 40 to clean the hard-to-reach valley sections (Chris/Landseer top tip).

Feel free to PM me with any questions. I did mine about 6-7 mos. ago.

[dtw]

Michael, thanks for all the info. Very helpful. I did get in touch with Mike and he found the writeup and sent me a PDF. I have been reading through it. The job seems pretty straightforward.

Some follow-up questions:
-Who is the favorite rebuilder for the MAF, and what is the approximate cost?
-How is the throttle body re-sealed (haven't searched RL yet but I'll go there next)?
-Can you tell me more about the injector harness kit? I'd love to rebuild/replace mine - it is getting crusty in some areas.

[153bigblock]

Originally Posted by dtw

Michael, thanks for all the info. Very helpful. I did get in touch with Mike and he found the writeup and sent me a PDF. I have been reading through it. The job seems pretty straightforward.

Some follow-up questions:
-Who is the favorite rebuilder for the MAF, and what is the approximate cost?
-How is the throttle body re-sealed (haven't searched RL yet but I'll go there next)?
-Can you tell me more about the injector harness kit? I'd love to rebuild/replace mine - it is getting crusty in some areas.

No problem and glad it was helpful.

• Roger sells rebuilt MAF's last I checked. I belive Louis Ott and 928Intl. do as well. I have not done this yet. Except for a stretched screen on one side, my MAF seems to have been rebuilt once and operates within spec as best as I can tell with a multi-meter. Another awesome thread from Mrmerlin on the subject: Adjusting the MAF 85 / 86 LH system - Rennlist Discussion Forums
• Here is a good thread by Mike Frye on testing and refreshing TB http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-forum/446728-throttle-body-leak-is-there-a-fix-yes-there-is.html
• You will need harness sets below. I ordered mine off of eBay along time ago. A quick Google yielded this place: Injector Connectors | The Knock Box A lot of folks like Eagle Day: Electrical Not to be repetitive, but I am sure Roger sells those as well. I would also check with Pelican as they have a lot of these items and are the sponsor of this forum.

[dtw]

Plenty of progress this weekend. After confirming engine health with leakdown and compression tests, I pulled off the intake. If anyone is gunshy about this job, don't be. It isn't that bad. Just be methodical, take pics, and tag/bag everything. I got the engine down to this state in about 90 minutes.



In the next session, i will remove the water bridge and oil filler along with some of the miscellaneous parts near the rear of the engine. Then I will get a batch of parts ready to send off to the powdercoaters and the cad platers. And while I'm in there, I'll take a sample of engine oil to send off to Blackstone Labs for analysis. I have a very slow coolant loss somewhere, and I want to make sure it isn't in the oil.

Anyone got any bright ideas for this little issue here? I had two of the cam cover bolts break off...in the head! They are on the driver side, middle row of bolts, far left and far right. It is too tight to get my drill in there to drill these out. The brute force approach would be to pull the engine.

I guess I could try a right-angle air drill and some extractors? What do y'all think of these:

Ingersoll Rand 7807R 3/8: Standard Duty Air Angle Reversible Drill - Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Alden-1007P-Piece-Master-Extractor/dp/B0002ESD80/

Crappy iphone pics but see centers of images:

[Landseer]

BTDT. PITA. Especially when a hardened easy out broke off in the drilled bolt.

On a do-over, I'd use left handed drill bit.

Problem is with the oddball cam bolt arrangment. Easy to overtorque. Next guy to remove them has them shear in the block.



Somehow, using a drill bit chucked into a flex screwdriver shaft chucked into a drill, I was able to make a perfect hole in the bolt itself. Should have used a left handed bit.




Then, dumbass me decided to use a craftsman easy out to remove the remainder. Here are pictures after 9 hours of grinding the easy out out of the bolt, sacrificing a dozen of cheap diamond bits. Not shown is deep packing of head with wax paper, then clean diapers, along with mounting a shopvac hose to continuously remove chips and grit.

[153bigblock]

Can these two-piece bolts be replaced with later, one-piece ones somehow?

[Dadddio]

I'm getting ready to do the same thing.
Could someone send me a copy of Mike Fryes PDF?
Would be much appreciated.

[dtw]

Sorry Dadddio, just saw this. PM me your email address and I will send you his PDF.

Went out to the shop last night to work on the two snapped bolts in the head. Over the weekend I removed the master cylinder and vacuum booster to gain access to the rearmost bolt. Good news and bad news. One bolt I successfully drilled out and installed a threaded insert. The other one I had 75% done and used an extractor - which snapped off in the hole. SONOFA...

Now I have to head to the store for some carbide burrs and start grinding away

[Dadddio]

No problem dtw.
I got it from Mike Frye.
I am doing the exact same thing as you.
I've the front of the engine torn apart down
to the crank seal.
Gonna do the oil pump rebuild next, then start
putting it back together.
Had to put the cam cover bolts on hold for awhile.
Had 5 broken, had to heli-coil 3 so far.
Got frustrated so I moved on.
Brake booster was fun wasn't it?
Might as well do the Blue hose while you're there.:-)

[dtw]

Hmmmm what's the Blue Hose?

My MC is pretty crusty and I have the smaller vac booster, so I have been thinking about replacing both while I am in there.

[Niles]

If you have a manual transmission, the blue hose connects the brake fluid reservoir to the clutch master cylinder.

[dtw]

Well, this project continues on. I never imagined there would be so many "while you are in theres" and gotchas. This is easily the most work I've done on an engine without actually removing it from the car (which I have been tempted to do a few times).

The latest issue was that my crank position sensor came apart while trying to remove it. I spent an hour digging around trying to drill it out, and decided that was futile and that going in from below was the best answer. Never having done the 928 clutch job before, that was a new experience. Going from 911s (simplest clutch in the world) to the 928 twin-disc (if the Space Shuttle had a clutch, this would be it) was quite a shock. I got caught off-guard by the WSM when they suggested replacing the ball cup bushing on the throw out arm - I hadn't ordered one (clutch R&R wasn't on my radar when I called Roger), and wasn't going to be finding one the day after Thanksgiving. I had a 911 shifter cup bushing on hand, and was able to cut it down and use it instead. The WSM is pretty funny when it comes to mounting the new bushing onto the ball, something like "position bushing over arm and push bottom of arm until bushing is seated".

Yeah, right.

I ended up positioning a ratcheting tow strap between the throw-out arm and the rear subframe. Significant tension was required to pop the new bushing on.

Some pics! First up - here's a pic of the tow strap engaged on the bottom of the throw-out lever.


Here's the top, after cleaning out and taping off the V. As you can see, my booster and master cylinder are out - they had to be pulled so I could drill out the sheared cam bolt. I am replacing them with the 86.5 booster (with higher internal boost ratio) and MC while I am in there.


Freshly powdercoated parts! These look nice but are going to require a few hours of prep. Some coating seeped onto the gasket mating surfaces of the intakes and into several of the cam bolt o-ring surfaces. Also, the insides of the parts are covered in a fine film of blasting media. So after I am done prepping the parts, they will all get hosed out with soapy water then compressed air.

[dtw]

Here’s a little sidetrack from the intake refresh, but the removal of the cam covers provides a little extra breathing room to access the brake booster drum “while you’re in there”. As documented in another thread, 4 Piston calipers: saving myself from...myself..., I have already converted over my 86.0 928S to the later S4 suspension and calipers/rotors. This is a pretty good stopping point that will yield huge improvement in braking over the old iron caliper setup. However, my ABS system was also on the fritz and I like the pedal feel provided by the late 4.5X booster. At this point in the intake refresh, I am waiting on my plated parts to come back before I can continue. And, since I already had a parts car in the yard with all the other S4 braking components ready to go, I figured “why the hell not”.

BTW, this is pretty similar to the conversion that Landseer has been working on: Drive Train Upgrade, S to S4: Project Thread Blog.

The factory WSM procedure for removing the brake booster drum comes in really handy, and makes the job a LOT easier. The WSM specifies an “in house” tool used to hold the plunger at the specified depth. This is easy to fabricate with a scrap piece of sheet steel and a drill. Three holes in a row – two outer holes to slide over the master cylinder mounting studs, and one center hole to allow the plunger to pass thru. I followed the factory procedure for extending the brake pedal in to the specified depth, then used a needle-nose vice grip to hold the booster plunger against my “in-house tool” (see pics). This makes it easy to detach the pedal from the booster assembly, then remove the threaded adapter from the booster plunger itself. Please take the extra 5 minutes under the dash to remove that threaded adapter that goes in between the booster plunger and the brake pedal – it makes removal of the booster possible. I won’t go into the rest of the R&R procedure, as it is pretty straightforward and the WSM does a good job of covering everything. If you drive a 5-speed car and have already gotten in this deep, now is a good time to evaluate replacement of the ‘blue hose’ (cheap/no-brainer) and the clutch master cylinder.

Having already removed and re-painted the needed S4 components from my parts car, and pre-treated all the flare line fittings with penetrating oil, the transplant of the booster, master, ABS brain, and ABS pump took about half a day. The R&R of the ABS pump is probably the fiddliest part, as it is close quarters and sometimes 3-4 hands are needed where only 2 will fit. To help make room for this part of the job, I removed the upper oil cooler line/fitting, the power steering reservoir, and the driver side ignition coil.

Pics – note that installation of the booster drum only works ‘one way’ and is an extremely fiddly/tight fit. I wrapped the freshly-painted booster up in foam to keep from scratching it up on the install. This pic also shows the detail of my “in house tool” and vice grips to retain the plunger (critical for both removal and install ease). The WSM specifies a hose clamp to retain the plunger, but I couldn’t get that to work reliable. I used the needle-nose vice-grips instead.



My daughter making herself useful in the shop, tightening the 4 M10 nuts that secure the booster under the dash.



Finished install of 4.5X booster and new blue hose (feed line from reservoir to clutch master cylinder – 5 speed cars only)



Finished install as above, including the master cylinder. Advisable to pick up a fresh o-ring seal here between the master cylinder and the booster.



Finally, here’s where we stand as of today. Everything is progressing well, but I can’t really do any more reassembly until all my cad-plated hardware and brackets come back from the plater. So here’s a photo showing off my cleaned and prepped valley, my new 8” H4 lamps, fresh brake bits, etc. As far as the S4 brakes/ABS go, all that’s left is to find some sort of connector solution to wire the late pad wear sensors and ABS sensors into the early harness. Some kind of watertight connector solution from Summit or the like will come along, I’m sure…stay tuned.

[dtw]

The progress halted for almost two months due to a snafu with the plating. I have projects backing up on other cars, so I am eager to get this car off the lift.

Finally, the cad plated parts came back. 13 lbs of parts from the 928 engine bay, plus another 160 lbs of hardware I've been hoarding for a couple years. I got to work right away and got the valve covers installed.

Brief rant: By my count there are 17 gaskets/seals/o-rings on each 32V valve cover. 17. Seventeen. W. T. F...

Anyway - my thread repairs lined up and held, so all well there. I used plenty of anti-seize and carefully torqued the bolts so no more break off in 25 years when the next guy has to do this job again.

Today I rebuilt the throttle body. The S3 throttle body uses the same bearings as the S4 - size 10x14x12 with a rubber seal. The part number is HK1012RS, and Roger at 928s-R-Us stocks them. The old bearings were frozen up in the throttle housing pretty tight, so i used a grinding burr on a Dremel to carefully grind a split in the outer bearing shell (after knocking out the cage and rollers). This made it much easier to knock the bearing shell out. A 9mm deep socket was the perfect size to tap in the new bearings. I tried Mike Frye's o-ring replacement method, but wasn't happy with the results, so just decided to replace the bearings.

See pics below. Before the temperature in the shop started to plummet, I assembled the throttle body and bolted it up to the big casting that goes between the MAF and the throttle body. Installed it in the clean valley and began fitting up breather and vacuum hoses. With any luck, by this time next week I will be back on the road.

[dtw]

One thing I had forgotten to mention - long ago in the first post I mentioned doing compression and leakdown testing to verify the health of the longblock. That checked out great, but I wanted to make really sure this engine is sound, so I also sent off an oil sample to Blackstone Labs. All the indicators looked pretty good, but of particular note was...no antifreeze in the oil! It appears that my head gaskets have some life left in them.

More progress last night getting some fuel, vacuum, and coolant plumbing done. The fuel rail is only trial-fit right now to make sure the FPR is lined up correctly.

[dtw]

Another long day of work reassembling the car. The day went really well, no snags. I was hoping to finish, but I'll have to wrap it up next weekend.

[dtw]

The car is back together and filled with fluids. The battery that was in the car was marginal at best, and the 4+ months of dormancy have done it in. Even after a full day of charging, it wouldn't even budge the starter. I brought in the battery from my parts car - also quite marginal - and charged it up.

Once it had a decent charge - not great but about as good as it was going to get - I turned the key. The car instantly fired up!! A great sign - as it has never instantly fired on a good day. It always needed a couple seconds on the starter before it would fire. It idled fine for a bit, then I gave it some gas. It responded to the throttle and revved up. When I let off the throttle, it died and would not restart. It tried really hard to start, firing on a few cylinders here and there, but just wouldn't get going. Shortly thereafter, that battery was completely used up as well (I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did).

I'll bring a new battery tomorrow - is it possible I was getting a weak starter or weak spark, due to my near-death battery, and that is why it wouldn't start again? Any other ideas? It sounded great while it was up and running - no whistling!

[dtw]

Stopped by my wrench this morning on the way to work and picked up a new battery! Umm it also occurs to me that there is the possibility that the car is out of gas... so I'll throw 5 gallons in it too...can't wait to get out of work today!

[dtw]

OK, this is 'mostly' done. The car is now up and running, and is smooth as a sewing machine. No leaks noted. It still tried really hard to start, and wouldn't quite get there. I gave it a bit of throttle and it finally fired right up again. It wouldn't hold an idle, but as soon as it got a little bit of heat into it, it ran perfectly. 750rpm idle. There must be something out of adjustment with the cold start issue, but I don't know what it is. Time to do some reading, unless anyone here has any ideas?