Does ethanol harm the engine of a regular gasoline car?

[aluminum]

OK This is the big one
But Before we get started let me say BUY ETHANOL FREE FUEL !!!!!!!!! FIND THAT STATION AND PAY THE EXTRA PRICE !!!!!!!
Everyone chime in because I am new to this and just starting and certainly no expert so any help for our cars here well be appreciated . Some say the Government is supporting ethanol to support farmers . However on this forum It's about what to do about our car's fuel .
Example Exert from this site
Link : https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080624123121AA7AiPg
if you have an electronic fuel injected engine, you need to install a flex fuel sensor, and have the computer reprogrammed to handle fuel with alcohol contents higher than E10, and you can run alcohol contents as high as E85. with the right programming you can run E100 fuel if you like.
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Automakers warn new ethanol mandate could damage vehicles
Link : Automakers warn new ethanol mandate could damage vehicles | Fox News
"Ninety-five percent of today's cars are not suited for E-15 based on what people who make those cars say," said AAA CEO Robert Darbelnet.
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Ethanol fuel stabilizers
Now I have been reading " TO NOT ADD STABILIZERS " to old Gas that has been sitting in your tank ! drain it out ( darn no drain plug ) and add Fuel Stabilizers with the Ethanol when you buy it to stop the Beginning of the end of your motor
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Phase Separation = Bad News

More concerning and immediate for the ethanol user is the fact that water causes phase separation in E10 and E15. Which is a polite way of saying that too much water causes the ethanol to actually drop out of the gas it was mixed it. Not so nice things always ensue after this happens. The least of your worries is that you now have gasoline with a stripped octane rating and a layer of water/ethanol in the bottom of the tank waiting to wreck havoc on your engine.
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Bio-Energy Series: Converting Gasoline Engines to Ethanol
Link :
Converting Gasoline Engines to Ethanol

[Pete R]

My friend actually removes the ethanol by mixing it with water and using the gas that's left on the top. He uses it in his chainsaws and such. He can't really process it efficiently enough to use in cars.

[aluminum]

Originally Posted by Pete R

My friend actually removes the ethanol by mixing it with water and using the gas that's left on the top. He uses it in his chainsaws and such. He can't really process it efficiently enough to use in cars.

Interesting : I am Just Learning , and indeed have read the water drops to the bottom .
This Water even common in non ethanol however in very small amounts also drops to the bottom .
this water is a cause of destruction on the entire fuel system and then the engine .
First off As I understand it the fuel pump go's then the rest over a long period of time .
Not sure how long but have heard 5 to 7 years to the end . I am on a return trip from Idaho to Mendocino ( Mendocino Hotels Restaurants Things to Do in Mendocino County CA ) area but plan to continue research on the ethanol fuel. Many Lawsuits toward the EPA and others I understand are running related.
I just bought 32 ounces of fuel Stabilizer ( wow $14.95 ) and added about 5 OZ's to each tank on fill up / Ford PU 460 huge motor
My Brother in Boise buys NON ETHANOL GAS and receives a bill once a month His car a 2014 Prius Plugin go's 12 miles on electric ( perfect for a small town ) then switches to Gas and gets 50 Mpg . Charge Cost is 30 Cents to recharge and takes 2.5 Hrs on the Plugin Prius .
Their is no fuel price on the pumps !!!
Non Ethanol Fuel costs More the Ethanol fuel of course but it's worth it as your car well not self destruct .
By the way any small engine like lawn mowers / Chain Saws with the use of Ethanol Fuel well destruct very fast like in a year or less by by motor just read on the net .
Link to baird oil and stations
Baird Oil Co.
I forget how many locations Baird Oil has but a lot
search for non ethanol stations in your area, no doubt the extra cost well be welcome rather then a ruined motor .

[19psi]

It's a bunch of internet conspiracy bull**** that started several years ago. Most pollution controlled communities with emissions testing have had 10% ethanol since disco was hot in the 70s. Back then it was called gasohol...it's called gasohol in my 928 owner's manual. I was a kid when all the little corn emblems started to appear on fuel pumps in my area. Many got their panties in a bunch and months later when nothing happened, it was all forgotten about. A few years ago when it started making rounds on the internet as if it's something new and horrible that is sweeping the nation.

My favorite are those who insist their owner's manual clearly states to never use ethanol. What it actually states is not to use METHANOL...but hey, it sounds close enough to ethanol so it must be the same.

I started driving in 1986 and I've never owned a vehicle that was not exposed to ethanol. My 928 came out of Chicago and it's been using it for 34 years. My lawn tractor is put away every fall and starts fine in the spring with the 6 month old gas every year for the last 14 years. My snowblower is put away every spring and starts fine every winter and is also 14 years old. The fuel in my generator is often 2 years old before I need to refill it. I NEVER use products like Stabil. I've NEVER had to replace a fuel line or touch a carburetor on any of them. Engines have never needed to be opened, I've never experienced a burnt or carboned up valve. I have two rare 30+ year old FI turbo charged motorcycles that have also had nothing but 10% ethanol their entire lives. Same with air cooled motorcycles, 2 stroke engines and the Corvair I drove into the ground over 14 years.

When I have a problem with any engine, the last thing I suspect is a fuel system problem. The whole ethanol scare is nothing but a scapegoat for a million other problems.

As far as E15, it's not some government mandate. It's an OPTION for 2001 and newer cars and the government is ALLOWING the gas stations to sell it. It's an option same as choosing 87 vs 93 octane fuel. I highly doubt we'll ever see the day when it replaces E10.
I'm also allowed to choose what fuel to use in my new 2014 E350 Super Duty. I average 13.1 mpg with regular fuel and 12.3 mpg with E85. Hardly the 3 to 4 mpg decrease that so many people claim.

[harborman]

I am against all this ethanol used in fuels for cars. We are taking food (Corn) and using it for fuel. It has no benefit except for subsidizing farmers to grow corn, driving up all our food costs at a zero gain in fuel economy. There is a closed ethanol plant just outside South Bend, In. It used so much water when it shut down, the local water table went up so high it flooded basements in the area. It's another government fiasco. The plant also put out quite an Oder.

[aluminum]

Is Your Small Engine at Risk from Ethanol Damage?
Man using a push mower.
Link:
Is Your Small Engine at Risk from Ethanol Damage? | Power-Equipment Motors and Engine Maintenance | Tractor Supply Co.

Outdoor power equipment engines, including those found in lawnmowers, chainsaws, and string trimmers, are susceptible to corrosion damage caused by E10, or gasoline that contains 10 percent ethanol. E10 is common in most U.S. gas stations. While ethanol has been shown to cause damage to all engines, small engines found in outdoor power equipment run a higher risk of being damaged by ethanol due to less frequent use.

To protect your investment, use a fuel stabilizer containing an ethanol treatment with each fill-up. This is an easy and inexpensive way you can protect your small engine from corrosive damage caused from ethanol.

Tractor Supply Co. carries an assortment of fuel stabilizers and engine treatments designed to protect your small engine from pre-mature aging. View our assortment of engine treatments online.
Why is Ethanol Harmful to Small Engines?

When gasoline sits still inside a small engine, the ethanol has a chance to cause corrosion to the engine components. Ethanol blended fuels have been shown to cause damage to small engines like lawn tractors, riding mowers, chainsaws, string trimmers, and other gasoline-powered outdoor power equipment due to less frequent use. According to small engine repairmen interviewed by Popular Mechanics Magazine, there is a rise in small engine repair work, and fewer of the small engine repairs being made are caused by normal wear and tear, these mechanics say. This may be good for small engine mechanics, but it doesn't bode well for you, the consumer.

To make matters worse, E15, or gasoline containing up to 15 percent ethanol, has been approved by the EPA and could become available in gas stations nation-wide by summer of 2012.

Ethanol makes up about 45% of most gasoline in the U.S., and this percentage is expected to continue to rise. While ethanol may not cause damage to your car or pick-up truck, it has been shown to damage small engines that get less use due to winter storage.
How to Prevent Ethanol Damage in a Small Engine

There are easy and inexpensive ways you can prevent damage caused by ethanol blended gas. It is a good idea to use a fuel stabilizer on your small engine every time you fill up. This is especially true when you are winterizing your power equipment in the fall and in the spring when you replace the old fuel for that first start of the season.

Tractor Supply Co. carries a variety of fuel stabilizers and engine treatments you can use to help prevent ethanol damage in your lawnmower engine. Check out our assortment of Traveller®, Sta-Bil®, Chevron Techron®, Sea Foam®, Star Tron®, and Lucas brand fuel stabilizers and engine treatments here. Use these treatments as recommended by the manufacturer to protect your power equipment investment.
What are Fuel Stabilizers?

Fuel stabilizers are fuel additives that can be used with any gasoline engine, including engines that use gasoline/oil mixtures and ethanol blends. Sta-bil brand fuel stabilizer with ethanol treatment formula helps your small engine in the following ways:

Prevents corrosion caused by ethanol damage
Helps clean fuel injectors and intake valves
Improves engine performance and efficiency

Use a fuel stabilizer ethanol treatment formula as often as every fill-up to prevent further damage caused by the use of ethanol fuel blends.
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Ethanol Fuel ForumEthanol Fuel Forum This looks interesting LINK :
http://www.topix.com/forum/energy/ethanol-fuel
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What’s to like about ethanol? It can ruin car engines, it’s bad for the environment, and it raises taxes, gas and food prices
Link :
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/01/whats-to-like-about-ethanol-it-can-ruins-car-engines-its-bad-for-the-enivornment-and-it-rasises-taxes-gas-and-food-prices/

[19psi]

Curious...what part of the country are you from, how long have you been driving and what gas stations do you use?
Not really interested in links that advertise commercial products or promote hysteria. I can find hundreds of sites which claim food cooked in microwave ovens cause cancer.

[Plexus928]

I've used 10% blend for years never had any problems, the best anti -knock additive out there Brilliant in turbo powered cars
More than 10% needs special tuning.
The only real problem is rubber fuel lines, MUST be ethanol tolerant. Ethanol can dissolve early rubber that was OK with lead additives, might not be with ethanol (in Australia lead was banned in about 1986, frankly anyone running a PI car with 30 year old rubber lines needs their head read- if they havn't already died in a big fireball!)

[aluminum]

I am Surprised that some seem to think Ethanol is without Problems ? However I see many think otherwise . In Tank Fuel Pumps with rubber lines well be first to go with Ethanol
Here is a Good list of Ethanol Free gas Stations just select your State / Area
Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada 8,441 Listed so far
note the NO ETHANOL in Alaska
Wow Check out all the stations in Florida (520 ) with all the water craft
Hummm I am beginning to smell the Bacon or is that the Ethanol .

[19psi]

Then you've been smelling it for close to 40 years. The fuel lines in my 928 were original when I changed them out simply for preventative maintenance. Funny how 3 decades of ethanol didn't F' 'em up.
The '75 Corvette that I bought from the original owner (friend), drove for 12 years/30K miles and then sold to a good friend 3 years ago has never had a fuel line replaced or the original carb opened up. It even has a bladder fuel tank and funny how that 10% never hurt it either.

I'm heading out now to throw away my 1989 push mower and leaf blower. They work perfectly but have had nothing but ethanol used in them since new. They just don't know they're dead and need help crossing over to the bright light. I also have a 12 year old chainsaw and weedeater...should I ***** can them too?

Let me try asking more questions...how many years have YOU been driving and how many ethanol related problems have YOU had in your vehicles?

[harborman]

This Ethanol thing I think started back in the Arab oil embargo in the early 70's. Then our government got involved to support farmers to grow more corn for fuel. Every thing I have seen is it does nothing to reduce our dependence on oil, but it has driven up our food costs here. The gas/ethanol mixture might be cheaper but there is no gain in gas mileage. When you consider the cost to make ethanol, the subsidies from our government, it is a loss. As I recall, driving back in the early 70's, there were reports of this causing problems in carbs. Therefore I tried to avoid it back then. Today, the rubber compounds are different.

[aluminum]

Originally Posted by harborman

This Ethanol thing I think started back in the Arab oil embargo in the early 70's. Then our government got involved to support farmers to grow more corn for fuel. Every thing I have seen is it does nothing to reduce our dependence on oil, but it has driven up our food costs here. The gas/ethanol mixture might be cheaper but there is no gain in gas mileage. When you consider the cost to make ethanol, the subsidies from our government, it is a loss. As I recall, driving back in the early 70's, there were reports of this causing problems in carbs. Therefore I tried to avoid it back then. Today, the rubber compounds are different.

Yes no doubt the Government Supports Ethanol related to Farmers . I believe that although Ethanol has been around for some time it was " about " 2003 " that Ethanol was Common in Gas stations and became the Primary Fuel Common ( perhaps I am wrong on that date not sure ) Personally I have only had to replace Auto Fuel Pumps / Fuel Filters ( hard line type small screen filters ) clogged up Filters / Decomposed Rubber fuel Lines / Carburetors , get water in them causing them to decompose it seems . Pot Metal seems to come apart or have a reaction.
My Chainsaws and mowers no doubt become Victims of Fuel Problems from sitting like when I am in Las Vegas for 6 / 7 months at a time . So Now I drain them or run them dry .
I have been using such tools ( Chainsaws and mowers ) since the late 50's and did not have the Internal Corrosion and rubber fuel lines problems I am having today , But only stale Gas problems in all Gas powered motors .
They larger amount of non ethanol fulling Stations around water craft areas tells a story that seems clear . I suggest that any Car owner take measures if they are going to leave a gas machine sitting more then 1 month . Use a fuel Stabilizer / drain tank / run dry whatever then start with fresh fuel when ready to use again .

[Plexus928]

Originally Posted by 19psi

Then you've been smelling it for close to 40 years. The fuel lines in my 928 were original when I changed them out simply for preventative maintenance. Funny how 3 decades of ethanol didn't F' 'em up.
The '75 Corvette that I bought from the original owner (friend), drove for 12 years/30K miles and then sold to a good friend 3 years ago has never had a fuel line replaced or the original carb opened up. It even has a bladder fuel tank and funny how that 10% never hurt it either.

I'm heading out now to throw away my 1989 push mower and leaf blower. They work perfectly but have had nothing but ethanol used in them since new. They just don't know they're dead and need help crossing over to the bright light. I also have a 12 year old chainsaw and weedeater...should I ***** can them too?

Let me try asking more questions...how many years have YOU been driving and how many ethanol related problems have YOU had in your vehicles?

Not all of early rubber lines were subject to ethanol rot, depends on compound.
You could get away with old rubber fuel lines on a carb car, probably would not get past 5psi pressure, regardless of type of rubber compound anyone running 30yo rubber lines in a PSI car (usually 50PSI (plus) is insane!I have had a pinhole leak in a PSI car,(pre-ethanol fuel) shoot fuel like a laser beam around the engine bay,
50PSI can empty a tank real fast! Real lucky my wife kept going on about smelling petrol, shut it down before the big flash, was not even an old line, just had a weak point.
I've allways seen this pic as a classic example of not changing old fuel lines
http://flatsixes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/porsche-928-fire-562x450.jpg