How can I tell if it's a Turbo S ??
 

I'm in the market for a 951. Ideally I would like an S but it hard to tell from internet photos. A few questions:

Can you tell if it's an S from the VIN #?
Can you tell if it's an S from the option's code (if so what's the code)?
Weren't all 88 S the metallic rose color? (I saw an 88 in white)

Any advise would help.

Thanks.

You can check this site for some great info http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/4786/

The VIN will give some info, manufactured year and last 4 digits are the serial number.
Option codes vary, but should definitely have
M030 Sport chassis
M220 Limited slip differential

Not all of the 88 turbo S models were metallic rose (I think only 339), other colors were produced. Of course all 89 turbos had the S package standard.

The engine code is the best way to tell (M44/52)
Rolled rear fenders
Larger brakes (from 928S4)

If you find one you are unsure of post info here and we'll try to help you out.

If you find a well maintained one you won't be disappointed ;)

Good Luck

a question for you on my 87951/almond beige metallic-ly1y
front rotors are just a squeak under 12".

i followed the link and by both the original sticker and porsche warranty voucher and by what's in my maint book, i show 951352 for type but don't have 220 as an option listed.:confused:
tia

Turbo S cars were only made in 88 and 89. Your car would merely be a 951, and it looks like you don't have LSD(option 220).

Unless I'm reading your question wrong, I guess that's what you were asking.

If what I'm seeing on Brembo's site is correct, the stock rotors for an 86-88 is 298-299mm(11.77"), The turbo S and 89 rotor size is 304mm(11.97"), only .20" bigger.

what's the 951352/type mean in my warranty maint book, just like in the links i mentioned in the above post, which are used to id an "s" model?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1192659612.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1192661020.jpg

Here's the one I'm looking at, is their any picture they can send me to prove it's an S? From these pics all I can see are the sports seats, the 180 speedo I think I see adj frt shocks which may show M030.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?rdpage=thumb&car_id=224565493&dealer_id=60 418255&car_year=1988&model=944&num_records=25&make 2=&start_year=1988&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engin e=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_ type=both&distance=500&marketZipError=false&search _lang=en&make=POR&color=&page_location=findacar%3A %3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=pr iceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceD ESC&address=33028&advanced=&end_year=1989&doors=&t ransmission=&max_price=&cardist=197

nothing from the pics to confirm an "s".

217hp was not the "s" version.

i have the 180 speedo and sport seats in the 87 i'm asking the questions about.

you need to see the small sticker in post #5 to see the "s" options to be sure.

87951

That is indeed an S and you can teel in the engine picture by the extra frame stiffener just to the right or the intercooler pipe.

That is indeed an S and you can tell in the engine picture by the extra frame stiffener just to the right or the intercooler pipe.

I'll take your word on it but I don't see it. Is it that white bar between the PS tank and headlight motor?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1192669465.jpg

That looks like it on that side. The other engine compartment pic has a better view.

+1

bearone2 - not sure about the 951 352, I'll have to check mine when I get home. To verify yours check your engine #, also if you look at your VIN# the 10th digit is a letter that designates the model year and the last 4 digits designate the serial number, I believe that all Turbo S models had a J or K for the year (88, 89).

armandodiaz - that does appear to be an S model (nice example). Ask them the engine code or get a picture of it.

One more question, were ALL 89 models S or were there also standard turbos as well? I do know all 89s had the same engine code.

There were no "standard" 89 Turbos but in 89 Porsche dropped the "S" designation. All 89 Turbos were built to the "S" specifications but were not designated as "S".

^^ beat me to it :)

All 89 Turbo models had the S package -
1989 was the last year for the U.S. turbo with only 1385 produced for the U.S.

mine has "hn" in the vin and it's date shows mar '87.

i've looked on the rt rear side of the motor with a light and mirror and can't find the number.

both items i posted were from a real "s" and with the color of mine/almond and 951352 in my warranty/maint book, close to 12" fr rotor, wondered what i have.

i couldn't see the beefed up area referred to, to the right side of the ic pipe, so i don't know what i'm looking for.

i appreciate your interest, thanks.

Just dug out my '86 window sticker, it too shows Model No. 951352.

Must merely be an internal coding for the assembly line. Could even be a designation to differentiate ROW from US, region coding so-to-speak.

thanks for looking

So does this seem like a reasonabe price, considering that evrything is working?

Price seems a little on the high side to me. I paid 10,000 less for my 89 Turbo; of course you have to take into account 160K on the clock (rebuild at 145K) maint records. Everything works interior in great shape (no seat tears or dash cracks) only a minor exterior blemish (little dent in hood). I looked around for quite a while before I found it.

KBB values the 88 Turbo S your looking at (excellent cond, 75,200 miles, loaded)
a little over $8,000 for private party sale and $9,700 for retail.......of course that is subjective.

If I was going to pay that amount I would expect the "Silver Rose" model, in excellent shape.

There are cheaper ones out there, little higher mileage but well sorted.

Are you looking for a track car, daily driver???

searching for this information turns up bits and pieces, but not a complete list. i'm surprised someone hasn't already come up with this list yet, so here goes.

how to visibly tell a 1988 951 turbo-s (must meet ALL of the below requirements). note that all 1989+ 951's are automatically turbo-s.

visible outside the car;
bigger front brakes from 928s4 (the non-s has front/rear brakes of the same size)
rolled rear fenders to accommodate larger wheels (this can be felt by hand, the non-s will have rear fenders with sharp edges)
turbo-s forged aluminum wheels (not available on the non-s, but easily swapped. beware of immitation d-90 wheels!)

visible under the car;
koni yellow adjustable shocks all around (this was the m030 option on the non-s)
ride-height adjustment threaded collars on the front struts (not sure if this was an option for the non-s)
thicker 26.8mm front sway bar (not as obvious unless you're familiar with sway bar diameters)
metal transmission cooling coil on rear-passenger side (available as option on the non-s)
M030 front hubs and spindles with ABS sensors
Rear trailing arms drilled and tapped for ABS sensors

visible inside the car;
abs (light visible on dash, the non-s had abs as an option)
full power seats for both driver and passenger (available as an option on the non-s)
10 speaker sound system and equalizer/amp. it has different speaker panels on the doors and the EQ below the radio

visible under the hood;
engine designation M44/52
engine number between 47J00001 - 47J01830
adjustable front shocks (available as an option on the non-s)
intake manifold has two vacuum ports instead of one (the one with the 12mm banjo bolt)
chassis stiffening brackets in the front for the struts
ac dryer lines are different to clear the front frame brace on the drivers side.
larger turbocharger (not available on the non-s). how to tell instructions here;
http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/eng-19.htm

less obvious or not easily visible differences;
larger sodium-filled exhaust valves
progressive springs
larger 25.5mm rear torsion bars
harder bushings throughout
1st gear hardened transmission
2nd gear hardened transmission
limited slip differential (available as an option on the non-s, can tell by jacking the rear of the car and turning one wheel to see which way the opposite wheel turns)
AOR Case Code Transmission: the turbo-s LSD had thicker friction discs and modified pressure cups to accommodate the thicker discs (AOR code is visible on top of the transmission with tranny removed)
larger front brake discs (.2" bigger)
different DME and KLR - chips were mapped for the K26/8 turbocharger

references;
porsche 944 turbo (link dead as of 7/28/2011);
http://vista.pca.org/stl/944turbo.htm
preserved web.archive.org:
https://web.archive.org/web/20041117101432/http://vista.pca.org/stl/944turbo.htm

turbo-s registry (link dead as of 7/28/2011);
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/4786/
preserved web.archive.org:
https://web.archive.org/web/20091027032350/http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/4786/

i'll add to this list as additional things come to mind. please contribute. :)

Very cool Peter!

... and we know a great guy who probably has all this and more details...

I'm looking for a strickly street, completely stock.
Just had a preliminary talk with the owner about price. I suggested mid teens, he said the car is in such good shape he will not let it go for under $17K. What ya think?
I'm also looking at a 94 968:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?rdpage=thumb&car_id=226589211&dealer_id=60 661195&car_year=1994&model=968&num_records=25&make 2=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engin e=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_ type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_l ang=en&make=POR&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3 Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=pric eDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDES C&address=33028&advanced=&end_year=2008&doors=&tra nsmission=&max_price=&cardist=607

looks good, though personally i'd prefer a 951 for that price. :)

for close to the same money, you outta take a hard look at the 968.

maint records are important on both.

After strongely chasing after 2 968s I ended up getting the 951S. My brother who's a Porsche tech at a local dealer looked at it and said it was one of the nicest ones he has seen in a long time. The only thing wrong was a leaking PS rack. So I was able to talk him into taking the price of the rack off. I'll be picking it up tomorrow. Final price $16.750.
I'll take pictures and post next week.

Why not the 968s? I really wanted one (I have always like them) but these owner's think they got gold and don't want to bugde on price.

951 will outrun a 968 easily. :)

that price is way high. the ad says "just serviced". with what? an oil change and a wash?

what did the records reveal?

thats very high, IMO. the option for the turbo S is M758 iirc. included are 10 speaker sound, split rear seat, LSD, 928 S4 brakes, rolled fenders, full adj. koni susp, ABS, stiffened chassis, clubsport wheels, and of course the k26/8 turbocharger.

let us know if you buy it, perhaps i could come oogle it :)

I bought it a week ago. I'm still doing some detailing to it and also added tint. I'm still trying to decide weather to put the "Turbo" script on the right fender. I can't believe Porsche didn't do any visual changes to distinguish it from the regular turbo. I'm also adding a new sound system, which I'm trying to decide which way to go on it.

To all who say I paid too much. When ever I floor it and the turbo kicks in, it's worth every penny I spent on it. I would dare to say, it feels better than the 996 I just sold.

if it's worth it to you, who cares what anyone else says. sure i paid way way WAY less than that, but i'll also enjoy replacing brakes, exhaust seals, and a few other needed items.

looks like i need to polish my wheels also.

btw how's that cup motor running?

i'm happy you bought it! post up some pics!

here is the factory frame rail stiffener brackets on the turbo-s;
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1275925745.jpg

I guess that answers the question of why the following came up when I tried to view the link: This car is no longer listed for sale.

:)

I have a real turbo S for sale if anyone is interested..........

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1278526009.jpg

Its a project car.

Please email me for details.

Len at Autosportengineering dot com

:)

i guess i'll ask the obvious question, why does that car not have the factory turbo-s wheels?

:)

That how I got it.

Right now its for sale. Once I finish a few other projects I may decide to keep it & finish it myself.

It has air bags & ABS & some features my 86 turbo does not have.

Len at Autosportengineering dot com

:)