944 S2 or 944 turbo -951

[lancia delta]

I have an opportunity to buy 89 S2 or an 88 951. Both seems to have good maint records (timing belt, clutch cam belts etc), both are red, same price range $7.5K.
Haven't driven both...I am sure the owners would not allow me to drive the way I want to test drive it and choose!!!!

- Which one is preferred? I understand that 951 is faster in straight-line...S2 is more preferred for daya to day driving?
- Is there any difference in handling characteristics? I understand that both have the same suspension...
- From a maintenance/things can go wrong stand point which model is better?
- At PCA meets, which car gets more attention?

Its my first Porsche....any help is appreciated
I had posted this some where and what I understand is that
- S2's are rare. . s2 has duel overhead cam which could be a problem if the chain for the valves are not checked. Dificult to find some parts for S2 (harder to find heads in case of a blown cam chain or sprocket)
- 951 are fast and has more potential for upgrade. More resale value

[nize]

951 or 968.

[carlege]

Lets face it these cars will break down. and you will need parts. Are you willing to hunt for S2 parts or you can call up one of the many 951 shops and have them help you.... No brainer to me. 951.

Any car can be a day to day. As long as you keep up the maintenace it will be as reliable as a Ford Edsel

[smlporsche]

I'll take the other view..

The S2 is definitely more dependable particularly when driven hard (i.e. track) and while the top end speed of the 951 might be a couple of MPH's faster you'll be hard pressed to capatalize on it unless you're into drag racing which these cars aren't meant to do IMHO

Yes, you have to be religious about maintenance but you should not own a P car unless you're preparred to be (or have deep pockets...)

[JAXTURBO]

951, but I'm biased. I think the 951's responds better to your inputs... from a motor standpoint. Maybe someone else can say, but I think the suspensions are similar.

[Techno Duck]

You honestly need to drive both. The S2 and 951 share essentially the same platform, but the difference in power delivery is night and day. I have driven a few S2's and they are fantastic cars and in my opinion have an even better power band than the 968 does despite being roughly 30bhp down.

They handle essentially the same, but require different techniques. The S2's big 3L can be used to muscle out of turns, while the 951 requires a certain finesse to keep the turbo spooled up ye be wise enough to be able to control that boost so it dosent come on too hard mind corner. The best way to put it, the instant torque delivery of the S2 makes it very easy to throttle steer while the 951 requires alot of finesse.

Stock for stock, both of them are about equal in straight line speed (not counting a 951S) and only in the high end of things will the 951 really shine. When you start modifying, the 951 will blow the doors of a S2 no problem. 300bhp is achieved with minimal parts while you probably will struggle to get more than 10% power increase out of the S2.

Parts for the S2 engine are harder to come by.. the cylinder head, cams, crank and block are very expensive second hand. 951 stuff in comparison is relativley easy to find for relativley reasonable pricing.

The S2 in my opinion is more reliable than the 951. I say this only because there is alot more that can go wrong on a 951 than the S2.. sure the S2 has those slight nuances like the cam chain tensioner, but that is a relativley easy to do job from a maitenance perspective. The turbo by nature makes a more complex car.

With that said, an S2 as a daily driver would be awesome i think. The power delivery is unbeatable with the big 3L engine, very usable low end power. The 951 is not bad, but you need to get used to the turbo lag. But i will say with the 951, the endless pit of acceleration when you put your foot to the floor is nothing short of awesome..plus the potential for power is unbeatable in the 944 series.

[DanielDudley]

I really like the power delivery of an NA car. My 951 was awesome though. If you have a lot of road, it is the car to have. If you are a scrapper, go for the S2.

[jjflash]

I think Techno Duck is right on.

I've had multiples of both of these cars and for my taste and needs I'd much prefer the S2 for daily driving. Boost is great and if you're looking for maximum thrills/$ then a 951 is great fun and can also be hot-rodded relatively cheaply. But for an overall car, S2 is REALLY sweet. Ditto for 968's although you'll pay a premium there.

[lancia delta]

Test drove the S2.

Good stuff
No squeals/rattles for a 20 year old car. Solid 'thud' when closing the doors.
Decent Acceleration and cornering ( couldn't push more as the owner was with me)
Smooth clutch. Clutch has been replaced 20K miles back as per the owner.
A/C is cold. Paint is great. Leather interior is good without any rips


Not so good stuff
Throttle response is bad....No lurching forward or nothing too exciting happens.
Feels a bit heavy. Gear shifts are not crisp ( I know its not fair as I am comparing to S2000 or my track Integra)

Questions
Could feel the smallest bumps on the road?? Is the shocks are shot or its it supposed to be this way?
Cams were replaced, Timing belt has been replaced, Cluth has been replaced

What sort of pre inspection I should go for?

[Techno Duck]

Do you mean you feel bumps in the car chassis or in the steering wheel. The cars are very responsive in terms of road feel, great feed back. But if the car has the original suspension you need to factor in its 20 years old with XX miles on it.

Gear shifts are not notchy at all with the stock shift linkage. Its a very 'plush' gearbox by nature. Going with a short shift linkage will make them considerably more notchy, but nowhere near a 'great' feeling gearbox.

Not sure what you mean by throttle response?

The big things on the inspection are inspection of the cam teeth to make sure there are not any broken or abnormally worn down teeth. Clutch is a big one because its a long and expensive job. Timing belt, waterpump service needs to be done frequently also..so something to think about. Ideally try and find a shop familiar with the 944 to do the inspection.

[lancia delta]

I am kind of used to hard suspension on my daily driver too ( off the shelf yellow konis, higher spring rate coil overs). This S2 felt hard for a stock suspension.

what I meant by Throttle response was that how fast it revs up or responds when you press the gas...it wasn't too good.

Cams (60K), timing belt (86K), clutch (65K)has been replaced. It has 89K miles. Will be taking to a Porsche ONLY shop

[TexasBlake]

Originally Posted by lancia delta

Will be taking to a Porsche ONLY shop

Whoop tee da. Porsche technicians don't know how to work on these cars any better than any other ASE cert. technicians. If you insist on taking it to an overpriced Porsche service center, at least make sure they have someone there who knows dick about the cars.

My car's receipts are all from the "premiere" Euro car places in town, yet I find SO MUCH ghetto stuff on this car done by them (I do all my own work), that I will NEVER step foot in some of these shops.


But then again, what makes you think that a technician who works on a brand new 911 GT2 is going to care about working on your 20 year old front engine, weird, old, car, that isn't really a Porsche? The Porsche Club of America members won't even recognize your presence or talk to you, so why would the technicians care about 944s?

Technicians today are used to plugging in a computer, and having it tell them what is wrong with the car. You need to find a real technician who can properly diagnose things. Basically, find someone who knows a thing or two about the Bosch L-Jetronic.

[lancia delta]

While its a Porsche only shop, its run some old Porsche guys (owner has 944 ). Most of the cars I see there are 944's, old 914's , 911's ( 80's or early 90's) some Boxters and very few new 911's.

Attitude is something out there in all car categories but I guess its more on European cars

[Lawrence Coppari]

Dependability? I bought my 89K 1986 turbo in 1997. Since then it has run slightly over 100 DE's. When I first got it, I put a K27 on it, MAF, and have run 1.1 bars boost with 3 bars FP. Admittedly, it has two oil coolers and a channeled/doored oil pan and has had an oil change every third DE plus rod bearings at 125K. Other than a wiring problem and the standard Porsche oil leaks, it has never broken. It now has 174K on it and runs as well as it ever did. It is on its second K27 and has an upgraded head gasket that was installed in 1998 when the turbo was first upgraded.

It is a reasonably fast car. I do not run the engine over the original redline of 6.4 although the chips allow 7K. Maybe that is why it has remained intact. If you maintain these things and stay away from high rpms, they tend to last a long time.

[lancia delta]

After torturing my self with lots of possibil ities, scenarios and what ifs.......I picked up an S2 Sweet Sweet Sweet

After drving around for a while, I am thrilled....gear shifts are not as bad as I thought initially...Even with ice cold AC, passing power in third and fourth is great ( nothing like 951 though). Handling is very predictable ( not like my Super charged MR2 which will bite you back if pushed harder). No oil drops on the floor.

Only gripe I have is about how difficult is to do heel toe......I must be doing something wrong Will post some pictures soon

[Techno Duck]

You may want to try a new heel toe method, especially with the floor mounted pedal. I found the only way i could do it in these cars consistently without my foot slipping off the brake or under blipping was to use the 'toe - toe' method. Its just extremely unnatural for me in these cars to do the literal heel - toe method.

I have alot of trouble heel toeing in friends cars as a result unless they have the floor mounted pedal also.

[lancia delta]

googled toe toe without any luck... is it like for blipping you use the upper portion of the feet? thanks