Time for a New Battery……

[Marine Blue]

So my 964 battery has been showing signs of getting weak and considering its from 2017 I’m thinking it’s only a matter of time before it needs replacing.

This has lead into a search to see what options are available for both standard batteries and lightweight. The last time I searched for batteries was about 3 years ago and at that time I ended up buying an Odyssey PC925 for my Spyder which has been extremely disappointing. Within a year of purchase the battery wouldn’t hold a charge for more than a week and has failed twice. They wouldn’t warranty it as they said it’s not the right battery for the 987 even though it’s advertised as such so I won’t be giving any of my business to Odyssey.

My standard battery choice was a Bosch S6 Premium AGM battery which weighs in at 44 Lbs. Amazon has them available for $305 plus tax so not great but not bad. My biggest hesitation is that I have a hard time throwing another ballast in the car when there are other options. I should note that there are some standard lead acid battery options which weight about 8 lbs less but the reserve power is questionable and I’m not keen on putting sulphuric acid in my frunk if there are other options. These lesser batteries cost about $215.

So the other option is the more modern Lithium batteries and it seems it’s dominated by two players, Antigravity and Braille. Braille was the first to the market and their products have proven very reliable. They also seem to stand behind their products although I don’t see warranty issues come up very often. The Braille option for the 964 is the i34X and costs about $980 so definitely not cheap. It weighs about 10 lbs so basically I’d be removing 30-35 lbs from the front of the car which is significant!

Antigravity has a Group 48 battery which costs about $900 and weighs about 13 lbs so fairly similar to Braille. My issue with Antigravity is some of the correspondence I’ve seen online between them and those that had issues with their batteries. So for lightweight option I’m leaning towards the Braille.

I’d be curious to hear from others if there are other reliable lightweight options that don’t need to be on a tender constantly.

[aigel]

Weird. I have that Odyssey in my 993 and the first one lasted about 8 years, I am now on the second one, no problem. About 2 years in. I do keep it on a tender when I don't drive the car more than a few days. The 993 model has a pretty high power use just sitting. Consider giving the Odyssey another shot.

[Newsboy]

I would go with the AGM. Do not think leakage is a problem. My AGM is 8 years old, kept on a trickle charge. Can think of better ways to spend $600.00.

[Marine Blue]

Thanks for the feedback. I failed to mention that the lead acid options that are lighter (38 lbs) are the old school non AGM. I have already decided that is not an option, it’s just not worth the risks. The AGM is still definitely one of my top choices and yeah the cost is certainly a factor.

Regarding the Odyssey, I’m technically on my second one on the Spyder. The first one lasted about 2.5 years before it wouldn’t hold a charge reliably, it was just outside of the warranty period. The second one has been unreliable from the get go and as noted Odyssey basically told me to go pound sand when I inquired about warranty. I’ve been able to keep it going with constant trickle charge but when I’m out driving I definitely notice the battery getting weaker with every start. So over a span of 5 years I’ve paid $450 for their batteries. From what I’m hearing and reading the Braille batteries are easily going 8+ years without issue so overall cost of ownership isn’t that much different. They also have much higher CCA’s, maintain higher voltages and have more reserve.

Braille noted that they have a new Group 48 in testing right now and expected to release in May of this year so I’m going to hold off until then to see what that battery will cost. I’m hoping it’s cheaper.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by Marine Blue

My biggest hesitation is that I have a hard time throwing another ballast in the car when there are other options.

Are you running in a world class race that a piddly 35 extra pounds would make a difference?

Besides you are looking at a 3000 pound car and do you really want to move the C of G further back on an already tail-heavy car?

Originally Posted by Marine Blue

Antigravity has a Group 48 battery which costs about $900.

I'd need their H7 80Ah which is the same as the factory original in my 991 GTS for a whopping $1200. If I get a quality AGM which is what it came with, I can buy almost 5 batteries for that $1200. But the factory original Banner is going into its 9th year without issues.

Battery acid? Put a battery mat under the battery. I've never had one leak in over 45 years.

[Marine Blue]

Originally Posted by Traveller

Are you running in a world class race that a piddly 35 extra pounds would make a difference?

Besides you are looking at a 3000 pound car and do you really want to move the C of G further back on an already tail-heavy car?



I'd need their H7 80Ah which is the same as the factory original in my 991 GTS for a whopping $1200. If I get a quality AGM which is what it came with, I can buy almost 5 batteries for that $1200. But the factory original Banner is going into its 9th year without issues.

Battery acid? Put a battery mat under the battery. I've never had one leak in over 45 years.

All very good and valid points. My original Porsche battery died at 5 years on the Spyder, it wasn’t an AGM though. Current AGM battery cost is $300 so I can get three batteries for the price of one lithium, no argument that getting an AGM will cost less.

Am I running a race, definitely not. In fact I’m not running autocross or tracking my cars but I do run them fairly hard in the canyons and I can definitely feel differences when I make changes to them. This is a hobby and part of my enjoyment comes from perfecting the machine. I could give a crap about lap times and beating the another persons time at the track. For me it’s about connecting with the car, pushing it and have it perform beyond my expectations without flaw. When something falls short I fix it or improve it.

The logic I’m using is that I’m spending an additional $600 to gain about 3.5 Hp with absolutely no detriment on the cars overall mechanical longevity. I’m also improving handling, braking performance and gas mileage at no detriment to the car.

My point is that it seems like an easy place to gain some performance with the only detriment being a lighter wallet. But having been burned by other battery manufacturers I want to hear and get others opinions/experiences.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by Marine Blue

My original Porsche battery died at 5 years on the Spyder, it wasn’t an AGM though.

I was confused with the Spyder thing, thinking you had a 550 Spyder. Its for the Boxster.

It is your money and I get your point of making little improvements a la Jack Olsen.

[Kein_Ersatz]

Odyssey batteries fair better with an intelligent trickle charge. My wrench uses Odyssey on his 4 air-cool P-cars and says investing in the Odyssey charger with their battery is the best weight / cost / longevity option he has come across. The charges are pricey, but designed to maintain their battery design, not general purpose. I have Odyssey in my track 993 going on 6 years and have an Odyssey in my John Deere F911 mower going on 4 years. So far have had no need to make a claim, so can't speak to warranty issues. My observation, the P-cars have parasitic drain on batteries and thus require smart trickle charging if they remain unused for weeks / months at a time. The JD has zero drain while sitting for a week (mowing) or months (snow removal) and do not seem to require intelligent trickle charging. YMWV.

[Traveller]

And after reading posts about batteries on various forums, the best batteries I have owned are standard flooded lead acid batteries, you know the ones with the caps so that you could add distilled water.

16 year battery life in the Toyota when it was sold and 14 year battery life in the Honda when it was sold. Both batteries were the factory fitted original batteries made by Panasonic.

Neither of them have every had a maintainer on them.

[Marine Blue]

Originally Posted by Kein_Ersatz

Odyssey batteries fair better with an intelligent trickle charge. My wrench uses Odyssey on his 4 air-cool P-cars and says investing in the Odyssey charger with their battery is the best weight / cost / longevity option he has come across. The charges are pricey, but designed to maintain their battery design, not general purpose. I have Odyssey in my track 993 going on 6 years and have an Odyssey in my John Deere F911 mower going on 4 years. So far have had no need to make a claim, so can't speak to warranty issues. My observation, the P-cars have parasitic drain on batteries and thus require smart trickle charging if they remain unused for weeks / months at a time. The JD has zero drain while sitting for a week (mowing) or months (snow removal) and do not seem to require intelligent trickle charging. YMWV.

I hadn’t really heard anyone mention their chargers in the past so I do appreciate bringing this up. I’ll do some more research to see if maybe thats another solution. I was able to revive my Odyssey with a Schumacher smart charger and it’s been fine since but it definitely doesn’t crank as fast and is weak. I know once a battery fully discharges it’s hard to bring them back fully.

Originally Posted by Traveller

And after reading posts about batteries on various forums, the best batteries I have owned are standard flooded lead acid batteries, you know the ones with the caps so that you could add distilled water.

16 year battery life in the Toyota when it was sold and 14 year battery life in the Honda when it was sold. Both batteries were the factory fitted original batteries made by Panasonic.

Neither of them have every had a maintainer on them.

I think a big part of it is that batteries do fair better if they are used regularly. My 2017 Volvo had its original battery after 5 years and 120k miles but it was used frequently. My 2019 GMC Canyon battery died in 2020 during Covid because I wasn’t driving it as much and that was lead acid. The AGM in our 17 Mercedes wagon died during Covid too, actually both its batteries died and both were replaced under warranty. We had a Honda CRV from 2002 until 2009 and that also had its original battery when we traded it in, still going strong.

The full discharge is the kiss of death, so perhaps the right approach is to assume the Porsche batteries need to stay on tenders since they’re not driven regularly.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by Marine Blue

I think a big part of it is that batteries do fair better if they are used regularly.

Generally yes, but the 16 year old Toyota had far less than 60K miles on it. The 14 year old Honda had 152K miles on it and my Porsche friend who bought it replaced the battery unnecessarily; it was the starter.

Originally Posted by Marine Blue

The full discharge is the kiss of death, so perhaps the right approach is to assume the Porsche batteries need to stay on tenders since they’re not driven regularly.

I worked in a government battery lab. I know batteries. I also have a voltmeter connected directly to the battery in most of my vehicles so that I know what is going on.

My 991 is only on a maintainer when it is parked for the winter or if I am away for 6 or more weeks. Other than that, it is parked most of the time.