longevity and reliability of 964s

[96conv]

I started off looking for an 87 - 89 coupe for my wife but discovered that some 964s are in my price range. Saw quite a few but got really scared off by the stories. Most have had thousands of dollars poured into them to address leaks, dual mass flywheel issues and distributor problems. A couple have had a top end rebuild after just 70K miles. While it's tempting to invest into a car that's been sorted out, I still wonder if those expenses are just the tip of the iceberg. Are there any high mileage 964s out there? Would you consider your repair bills to be out of line as compared to reports from, say SC or late 80s Carrera owners?

[TMH]

96conv,

I think that the 964 was kind of expensive to sort out, but once that has been done you are pretty well set. Big things are what you have discussed: Oil leaks, dual mass flywheel and clutch. Distributor is not that much of an issue if the vent kit has been added to the earlier models.

As you can see from my sig, I have an '89 C4 and an '87 Carrera. My gut feel is that the C4 will be a little more expensive to maintain over the long run as compared to the '87: It is just a little more expensive to work on the 3.6 motors, having to remove all of the underpans to get at anything, and the AWD is a more complex system than the RWD. Based on the way the C4 drives, however, it is worth it to me to have to pay a little more to keep it up.

Personally, I think that a sorted out 964 is one of the best P-Car values right now: They are incredible cars to drive and people have been scared off by their overstated problems, so they are available for a good price currently.

Good luck,
Tom

EDIT: What are you looking for in the new car for your wife? I would have to say that the C4 is not a great car for a lot of in-town use (kind of heavy, slower getting "out of the hole"). However let it stretch its legs some, and it is a whole lot of fun. Also, I like the AWD system of the C4 for my wife as it is very stable and predictable, and should keep her out of trouble even on wet roads. The 964's are also much more civilized as compared with the '87-'89's: More plush on the inside and very quiet (comparatively) regarding engine noise. I just got into the C4 this weekend for the first time in a while. I could not believe how quiet it was inside compared to my '87. I could actually hear my stereo! One last item: It is my belief that Porsche first got A/C right on the C4's. The A/C is O.K. on my '87, but the system on the 964 can deal much better with hotter exterior ambient temperatures, and still keep the cabin interior COLD (not just cool).

T

[96conv]

Thanks for the advice Tom. I am looking for a daily driver for my wife and test drove an 89 1/2 C4. We found that one car it to be ponderous in traffic. However, the other 964s were quite agile and fast. I posted the same message on the 911 board and someone said there are 964s out there with 250K miles on the clock. I hadn't heard of this but if that's true, I'll continue to consider the series.

[91C2wrencher]

96'er, Back when my '91 C2 was stock, it was a wonderful daily driver. Very easy to zip around in. It's a little more finicky today, but I like that too. I would keep looking at 964 until you find just the "right one", near stock, garaged, good service history.

[Peter C2]

96conv, Why not consider a 964 with Tiptronic? The transmission is very reliable and most of them are in great conditions. The price is also very attractive compare to the 5-speeds. I had originally bought the C2 for my wife, but end up driving it myself.

Regards,

[96conv]

I did consider a couple of C2s w/tiptronic but the sellers were very hard to reach. When I was selling my car, I listed home and cell phone numbers plus two email addresses. Anyway, I'm setting up a PPI now on a '87 coupe. The seller is a fellow local Pelicanhead. If this doesn't work out, I'll look into 964s again.

[patalive]

96Conv

I drove an SC for 11 years as a daily driver and a DE car. Last October, I sold the SC and purchased a 93 C2, again for a daily driver and occassional DE car. They are absolutely two different cars - for a daily driver, in my book, it's tough to beat the C2 - suspension, transmission, power steering and a fully functional AC/heating system that really works! The 3.6 engine turns out gobs more torque than the SC's 3 liter. It's been said that the 964 is 80 percent 993 under the skin with 90 percent old style Carrera styling.

Yeah, some of the early 964 had problems but they have been over blown. However, if you aim for late model 92, 93 or 94, you are getting a very solid, reliable car.

On the track, the C2 is not as nimble as the SC, but with the right tires, lowering and other tweeks, it does well. What I like also is after bringing the car down to European height with H&R springs and new shocks, there is no bump steer that I had with the lowered SC. The C2 has outstanding street manners.

You should post your question over on the 964 board on the Rennlist Forums. http://www.rennlist.com/
That group is an outstanding resource for 964s - one of the moderators is the author of a new Bentley Manual on 964s, due out this December from Bentley. See: http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=GP64&subject=15

All in all, I think you would be more pleased with a late model 964 for a daily driver. IMHO, a much better daily driver than the earlier Carreras and SCs.

Chuck
93 C2

[expat]

I too would put the 964 over the 87 for a daily driver (wife mostly right?), for reasons stated above.

Cant speak for reliability myself but know many that have had the usual fixes and are running well today.

Good luck

[96conv]

I'd have to agree with you, Chuck. The C2 is a better daily driver than either an SC or 87 coupe, comfort-wise. I looked at mainly 89 - 91 because they're in my price range. The 92s and 93s seem to be a few $Ks higher. You know, I found my SC to be more nimble on the street as well. I felt more connected to the road in my SC or the 87 coupe than the C2 and C4 I test drove. Maybe it was just my imagination.

[patalive]

96conv -

Yes, I agree about the street feel of the SC versus the 964. However, if you really look at a stock 964, it looks like a 4x4 with all that empty space between the tires and the fender. It sits waaaaaaay too high. Shart turn ins at the track, and even on the street felt a bit unsettled. However, after lowering the car to European height and replacing the front 205 tires with 225 tires, (the latter to help offset understeer), it's a new car. For daily use, I feel connected to the road again - still not like the lowered SC, but close. But given all the other advantages of the 964, I would always chose the 964 for daily use.

I would not dismiss an earlier 964 that's been sorted out or has higher mileage without problems. I would guess that by now that cars that experienced dual mass flywheel problems have been corrected. Or if not, it's not going to fail - just swap it out when the clutch is replaced. Look for a car with the distributor air vent kit, (which corrected the distributor belt problem). If you locate a good candiate, be sure to find a shop that really specializes in Porsches and is knowledgable with the 964s for you PPI. Here in WashDC, one of the pcar shop owners admitted that they did not see that many 964s and were not as familiar with the car as say Carrera, SC or a 993, simply because there are far fewer 964s than all other models. . That's why the 964 board on Rellinst is invaluable.


Chuck
93 C2

[Trent P.]

96conv, if you're still considering a very nice 964 Tip (Cabriolet, even!), I'm very easy to get hold of. Just PM or e-mail and I can give you the details.

[96conv]

Thanks Trent. I just put in an offer on an '87 coupe. It is the best example of a P-car I've seen in that era so far. If it falls through, I'll send you an email.