Buying advice on 964 please

[soup dragon]

Talk me into/out of buying a 964 !
im interested in changing my 88 3.2 for a 90/91 c2 or c4 possibly a tiptronic.
I have heard :-
the steering/suspension/gearbox are better than my 88 carrera.
Are they that much better/modern?
I do diy basic servicing on my 3.2 is that out of the question on say a c4?
How does tiptronic work from a drivers point of view?
Any points to look out for when veiwing a 964 that could mean ££££`s
cheers stu

[Schuey]

from what I've heard is stay away from the TIP...I'd never own one, but that's just me...the pure joy of driving any sports car starts at the shifting...

[soup dragon]

cheers for the reply,going to look at a manual c4 tommorrow!

[ronone10]

Um...new owner of a '93 C2 Tip with 68K. What I like it is a bullet proof transmission and happy I bought one. It is a daily drive in traffic and love the fact that I don't have a manual clutch. When I need the extra torque and acceleration, I slid it over to manual and have enough power to get myself in trouble (in a positive way).

You have to decide what you really need. For me, it was the tip and for others, it has to be a stick. Granted, the tip is about 200 lbs heavier due to the transmission so it is going to be slower than a stick.

Good luck....

Ron M.
'93 C2 Guards Red

[d993]

I've had both: Several Carrera 3.2's and 2 964's.
Never had a major problem with the 3.2's.
I had a BIG problem with my '90 C4.
At 66k miles, the timing chain tensioner gave out, causing pistons and valves to clash!
I had the car for over a year afterwards, trying to figure out if I should spend $9000 on a rebuild, or get another engine for $7000.
I ended up parting it out and getting a total of $17k out of it.
If you're buying a 964:
1. Make sure the timing chain tensioner has been upgraded to the newer style (actually OLDER Carrera style!)
2. Make sure the seals have been upgraded. Early 964 have severe oil leaks.
3. Make sure the flywheel is NOT the dual-mass.
If any of these apply to the car you're looking at:
1. Ask for a big discount.
2. Buy a '93-'94 model. ('87-'89 911 3.2's are actually worth more than most '89-'92 964's).

The 964 is faster, and handles a little better than the Carrera 3.2, but otherwise it's the same car (except for the slightly different suspension set-up, different bumpers, and 30hp).
But along with these improvements comes a potential for big, expensive problems.
Good luck.

[d993]

IMO, the early 964 ('89-'92) is one of those "in between" 911 models, just like the 996.
Too many issues, not enough resale value, etc, etc.

[soup dragon]

Thanks for the replies,so far i have driven and looked at a c4 manual and a c2 tiptronic coupe.
I think the ride quality (suspension) is better on a 964 my 88 used to crash over the slightest imperfection also my 88 goes "floaty and light" at the front under hard throttle (it has the lip spoiler and rear tail fitted)neither of the above cars did this so good!
Also i liked the power steering not overly assisted and plenty of feel, my 88 is a chore to park but great when you got going.
As for performance the isnt much between my 3.2 and these 3.6`s -guesss its the weight difference.
The c4 has a massive history file all expenditure itemised it is used as a daily driver and has 128k on the clock-i noted it had a "porsche 3 peice clutch fitted ?" at 100k only downside of the c4 was the drivers seat/gear gaiter/and handbreak need recovering the leather-a very light grey almost white) was well worn and tatty.
The c2 tip was in amethyst BUT the interior which was in good condition was in a light purple! dunno if i could get used to that.The tiptronic was very good but as the car is a weekend toy i think a manual box might suit me better.
also the c2 had 2 warning lights on -rear brakes and washer bottle(it had been filled!) also did not have the distributor breather mod for some reason.
i like the 964 coupes clean looks (my targa has a whaletail) and the abs and all the toys .
ummm trying to weigh it all up and trying to justify it to myself

On the <89 board everyone seems to want to fit 3.6 engines get rid of spoilers and fit c2 bumpers 17" wheels etc
on another 964 forum they wanted whale tails and duck spoilers
crazy mixed up world eh?

[JasonAndreas]

Originally posted by d993
1. Make sure the timing chain tensioner has been upgraded to the newer style (actually OLDER Carrera style!)

The 964 has always used the exact same hydraulic chain tensioners that are in the 993.

Originally posted by d993
3. Make sure the flywheel is NOT the dual-mass.

Actually you want a dual-mass flywheel, just not a C2 with the Freudenberg flywheel (you want a LUK).

[d993]

Originally posted by JasonAndreas
The 964 has always used the exact same hydraulic chain tensioners that are in the 993.

Wrong! Only the '93-'94 964's had the newer 993 style tensioners.

[i]Actually you want a dual-mass flywheel, just not a C2 with the Freudenberg flywheel (you want a LUK). [/B]

Why use something that decreases response (twice the weight), and costs more to replace, and wears out faster?

[d993]

Maybe that's what was used on all the 964's in the UK..............I'm in the US.

[soup dragon]

ummm that clears it up a bit
going to look at 1 more a c4 manual (top end rebuilt,new clutch,oil pipes,brakes)
then make my mind up (cus im an impatient fool!)

[JasonAndreas]

Originally posted by d993
Wrong! Only the '93-'94 964's had the newer 993 style tensioners.

Starting with MY89 the 3.6 used hydraulic chain tensioners. The workshop manuals, service information booklets and the dealer parts catalog history list don't show any changes. I think even the smaller displacement CIS turbo models used the same tensioner but with a different housing? They are basically a spring with a hollow cylinder in the middle. If you happen to know a part number (or a photo) please post them, the numbers I have from when I replaced the gaskets and backflushed the tensioners are 964-105-079-00 and 964-105-080-00.

Originally posted by d993
Why use something that decreases response (twice the weight), and costs more to replace, and wears out faster?

A LOT (not all) of 964s with LWFs have serious stalling issues almost to the point of being undriveable. The other major issues are the low-rpm drone and idle clanking chatter. For a lot of people its too noisy and unacceptable. The DMF "wears out" no faster than a LWF, Porsche stopped using the Freudenberg DMF only on the C2 and replaced it with a model from LUK that doesn't have the early failure (the two flywheels separate) problems. The C4 was always delivered with the Freudenberg unit and to this day Porsche still uses a DMF on all newer models.

[d993]

I'm talking about the USA models. I didn't realize you're in the UK.

[JasonAndreas]

Originally posted by d993
I'm talking about the USA models.

The USA/CAN & ROW models share the same engine.

Originally posted by d993
I didn't realize you're in the UK.

I'm in the USA

[d993]

Berkshires...............sure fooled me.
Then you must be somewhere in the New England area........

[JasonAndreas]

When I moved here it sorta fooled me, we have Northampton, Dalton, Southampton, Williamsburg, etc. and a Florida too So much for creativety in the 1600's.