C4 purchase: 964 or 993?

[mnewport]

Hey guys. Looking at adding another car to the stable. I've got an SC that I've really grown to enjoy. My cold weather/trip car is an Audi S8. But I'd love to have a 911 that's more 'all-weather friendly'. I'm looking at both 964's and 993's. Which would you pick? What are potential problem areas to be aware of?

Thx in advance.

[Don Plumley]

The difference between the 4WD systems are night and day. The 993 is much, much simpler. While exceptions exist, the 964 system has at least the potential for very expensive repairs.

Here's a place to start reading.

[mnewport]

Here's a place to start reading.

Thanks...it looks as though I've inadvertently walked into a hornet's nest.

[911jettat]

Originally Posted by mnewport

Thanks...it looks as though I've inadvertently walked into a hornet's nest.

Go over to Rennlist to read more about the C4, you'll get a much better answer there. Long story short, if you want to drive it in the snow...get a 964 and have a blast.

BTW, I have a C2 and love both 993 and 964 (everything Porsche for that matter), just hate it when people steer others away with no first hand knowledge. Everything about these cars can be expensive.

[Stealth 993]

The also both feel totally different. My suggestion is go & drive both pick the one you like better.

993 is more "sporty" & less advanced. Still great in the snow, even with summer tires.
964, is more 4X4, a little less sporty, as it understeers a lot, heavy, complex. But WAY better in fowl weather, then the 993.

For me it would come down to use for the car, & what body style you prefer, both are great cars & either choice will a good one.

[porterdog]

I chose 964. Very very few real-world reports of expensive AWD failure, true mechanical AWD with optional locking at low speed (more like Quattro I; I had a couple 4000Qs with the cockpit-lockable diffs and they were damn near unstoppable in the snow), lower initial purchase price (important for me, at least ) and of course classic 911 looks.

The snow has yet to fly so the jury's still out (got it in June) but it's a riot on a dirt road.

$0.02

[iamtheari]

I bought my '90 C4 in Denver in early April and got hit by a blizzard across Wyoming on the trip home with it. A state trooper passed me going all of 40mph at one point and ended up backwards in the left-side ditch a mile later. A one-ton truck ahead of me had serious trouble getting up some of the hills. I just continued driving. In other wintry conditions, although I have not run the gamut of them yet with this car, I have felt more confident than I do in my half-ton pickup when driving in windy and slippery conditions. Deep snow is a separate issue, of course, but if you want a car to drive in the winter the 964 is a good choice.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by 911jettat

Go over to Rennlist to read more about the C4, you'll get a much better answer there. Long story short, if you want to drive it in the snow...get a 964 and have a blast.

BTW, I have a C2 and love both 993 and 964 (everything Porsche for that matter), just hate it when people steer others away with no first hand knowledge. Everything about these cars can be expensive.

I just hate it it when when others presume to know what first hand experience some may have

[sml]

Originally Posted by Stealth 993

964, is more 4X4, a little less sporty, as it understeers a lot, heavy, complex. But WAY better in fowl weather, then the 993.

the 964 C4 understeer is easy to improve with some new coilovers and/or swaybars. i have the jic cross coilovers and, when pushed, the car just drifts sideways in an easy to control four-wheel slide. there is no feeling of any clumsy AWD system ... it reminds me of my WRX, but with a rear wheel drive bias, not a front wheel drive bias like the WRX. i wouldn't hesistate to buy a 964 C4 again ... in fact, it would be my preference.

[911jettat]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

I just hate it it when when others presume to know what first hand experience some may have

I know....it was a weak sentence, I was in a rush.

I like what SML mentions, it's not a clumsy system. From the outside you would think 4 wheel drive would absolutely ruin the car, but it just widens the envelope of it's driveability. Given that Porsche switched to power steering with the 964, both C2 and C4 have similar steering feeling.

I would love one as a rally car!

[Bill Verburg]

There is nothing particularly wrong w/ the 964 awd when it is new and functioning properly, I lived w/ one from '90 to '00 in my g/f's 964, when it was functioning it was a non issue, when it fails it can be a major problem.

The issue is what happens w/ time and use and the potential problems and repair costs associated w/ aging vehicles, most of these potential problems were eliminated on the 993/996/997 version of awd.

[nickd]

Bill, what failed on your C4 that was a major problem? Reports of PDAS failures are rare.

Having the front half of the car separate from the back half is an example of a potential problem. But I've only heard of it happening with Herbie.

The C4 is a hoot in the snow. The most sure-footed vehicle I've ever driven when the roads aren't clear. I run it on all-seasons through the winter and don't even worry about swapping to real snow tires. However, my winter miles are low and I would definitely use snow tires if they were higher - if only to increase the safety margin even more.

Lots of second-hand feelings that the C2 is more responsive and makes a better track day car if that's on your mind.