Street/Track brake pads

[jager911]

I've used various brands of track pads over the years in my '74 911 which sees mostly track use.

My 993 is mostly a street car with 3-4 DEs a year. What brake pads are recommended for overall value, performance, wear on rotors etc? Don't want pads that are too noisy on the street.

[Bill Verburg]

Use the stock Textars for the street

[jager911]

Are they good enough for occasional use at the track? (Red run group-Instructors)

I've only had the 993 since last Oct and whatever it came with was good enough for Pocono and Shenandoah but heading to the Glen soon, will be taking it 'easy'. They may be stock pads as they're not noisy and not terribly dusty as track pads are.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by jager911

Are they good enough for occasional use at the track? (Red run group-Instructors)

Generaly speaking, No.

Why not pull a pad and see what you have if your are happy w/ them replace w/ the same.

Though most track pads are a little noisy, they don't all throw a lot of dust. I use Pagid RS19 yellow, very little dust and only ocassional squeel(but still too much for most users)

For only ocasional track use Pagid blue might be better but they do throw a lot of dust roughly comparable to Textars in that regard.

[SLO-BOB]

I would consider swapping out pads for track day. If you do 3-4 DEs a year you'll need to change pads anyway. It goes pretty fast once you do it the first time and dispense with the brake pad sensors. That way you can also change brake fluid before events to ensure that you've got fresh stuff. My evening ritual before track days is pad swap, brake fluid change, and track tire swap. It's a good feeling to show up prepared and also it's a great opportunity to get a look at my car mechanically which gives me the confidence to run the speeds we do.

[jager911]

Yes, I do similar track prep, pads, fluids, tires, load trailer etc but thinking of going back to a simpler routine of driving to the track while the 993 is still on street tires. I'm straddling the fence with getting seats, R tires etc as the power and brakes of the 993 is intoxicating but my '74 has a more raw, purer feel.

I'm leaning to installing track pads and save the street pads for the street, any opinions on Porterfield R4 vs R4S? I found them for under $200 F/R. I need to order pads by Monday to install by next w/e.

[Don Plumley]

I run my 993 to/from the track on Proxies (Dot R). If you think your 993 is fun on the track now - take out 300#+ and give it a go; mine is pretty raw and intoxicating.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

I run my 993 to/from the track on Proxies (Dot R). If you think your 993 is fun on the track now - take out 300#+ and give it a go; mine is pretty raw and intoxicating.

Ditto that, but on Nitto "r"s.

Don, is there a link to your weight reduction? I wouldn't mind dropping 300 lbs myself.

[jager911]

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

I run my 993 to/from the track on Proxies (Dot R). If you think your 993 is fun on the track now - take out 300#+ and give it a go; mine is pretty raw and intoxicating.

RA-1s are on my shopping list. I have an extra set of 18x8 and 18x10 but Toyo don't seem to make a 225/40R18 tire, I was planning to run 225/275 if I buy R-tires or sell the 18s and go with 17s. Are you guys running 17s or 18s and what size?
10 months ago, I told myself I'm buying a 993 as a street car as I already have the '74 as a dedicated track car. Now, here I am looking at seats/tires/susp/brakes and taking a slide down the slippery slope and you guys aren't helping . (don't tell my wife).

[aigel]

Don,

What pad are you running? I am hoping to find something that holds up to double duty and does not set me back $500 for the set (big reds).

George

[Don Plumley]

Originally Posted by aigel

Don,

What pad are you running? I am hoping to find something that holds up to double duty and does not set me back $500 for the set (big reds).

George

I'm running Pagid RS19 Yellows. A little spendy but with 9 track days on them they look hardly worn. Both Bill V and I swear by them.

[Don Plumley]

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

Ditto that, but on Nitto "r"s.

Don, is there a link to your weight reduction? I wouldn't mind dropping 300 lbs myself.

www.spinninghippo.com has all the stuff, but not in an easy table. Here are the big hits:

Seats
All interior sound deadening (including doors)
Door Panels
RS Carpets
Rear Seats
Sunroof (yes, the whole thing)
Big washer tank
Spare tire
Cat
Foglights
Engine Blower
Battery
Radio


I'm down to 2800# with 1/2 tank. And I weigh 150# dripping wet!

[Dan J.]

Hi,

Here's a few data points for you. OEM pads will not stop as fast because they don't have as much bite. Also, they will likely overheat if you are using the brakes hard for 20+ minute sessions. Depending on the track, if you really use the brakes, they might overheat after just a couple laps

I had Pagid Orange on my '86 Carrera last year. I did 5 events and they still had lots of life. That car was realatively stock and ran 2,600 lbs on Kumho MX tires.

Just this past week I used up a set of Porterfield R4s on my 964 c2. The car is 3,000lbs running Kimho MX's and I got just 235 track miles out of the rear pads. The fronts could have gone another 75 to 100 miles probably. I literally ran the rear pads down to the backing plates on the way home from the track, which was not intentional. I check the pads between events and bleed and all that stuff, and based on my previous experience with other pads, they appeared to have plenty of margin. I learned a lesson there.

I agree that the Porterfields are inexpensive to purchase, but the cost might be just short term if you need to change them every 200 miles. Also, they left LOTS of dust.

I run at Portland, which has two relatively heavy braking areas from close to 4th gear redline. The front straight is from 130 plus down to 2nd gear for the chicane, the back straight is from 130 plus down to high 3rd gear (not sure the speed...it is a busy section of the track!). The whole track is flat, so there's no heavy downhill braking.

I liked the feel and price of the Porterfields, but probably won't get another set.

Let us know what you decide on.

Thanks,
Dan J.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by jager911

RA-1s are on my shopping list. I have an extra set of 18x8 and 18x10 but Toyo don't seem to make a 225/40R18 tire, I was planning to run 225/275 if I buy R-tires or sell the 18s and go with 17s. Are you guys running 17s or 18s and what size?
10 months ago, I told myself I'm buying a 993 as a street car as I already have the '74 as a dedicated track car. Now, here I am looking at seats/tires/susp/brakes and taking a slide down the slippery slope and you guys aren't helping . (don't tell my wife).

I was going to try a set of RA1s, unfortunately, as you found they do not come in our 993 sizes( in 18 anyway). 225275 is a por balance f/r, 235/275 would be closer to what you want. 275 in the rear makes stock 993 gearing which starts bad, even worse.

My trans could take the gearing hit easily enough but the final straw is that if the car is low enough 275 may be too wide as well(It does depend on wheel o/s)

For track and even limited dd use MPSC makes for a very nice tire, and they come is our sizes 225/265 or 235/ 265. You really don't need more tire than that.

[kurquhart]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

I was going to try a set of RA1s, unfortunately, as you found they do not come in our 993 sizes( in 18 anyway). 225275 is a por balance f/r, 235/275 would be closer to what you want. 275 in the rear makes stock 993 gearing which starts bad, even worse.

My trans could take the gearing hit easily enough but the final straw is that if the car is low enough 275 may be too wide as well(It does depend on wheel o/s)

For track and even limited dd use MPSC makes for a very nice tire, and they come is our sizes 225/265 or 235/ 265. You really don't need more tire than that.

RA-1 does come in a 225/40ZR18, see five lines up from the bottom in the spec sheet:
http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/18968.pdf

I do agree that the 225/275 balance is poor. I ended up using 245/275 on my 964. Better sizing is one of the reasons I switched to Hoosier, but those are not a good option for the street.

[Don Plumley]

I'm not a great fan of the MPSC, but that's because I drive slow and couldn't get the MPSC's hot.

[jager911]

Originally Posted by kurquhart

RA-1 does come in a 225/40ZR18, see five lines up from the bottom in the spec sheet:
http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/18968.pdf

I do agree that the 225/275 balance is poor. I ended up using 245/275 on my 964. Better sizing is one of the reasons I switched to Hoosier, but those are not a good option for the street.

Is 245/275 (18") an option on the 993? What are pros/cons over Bill's suggested 235/265? Is gearing that much affected from 275 to 265?

[kurquhart]

Originally Posted by jager911

Is 245/275 (18") an option on the 993? What are pros/cons over Bill's suggested 235/265? Is gearing that much affected from 275 to 265?

245/275 turned out to be the best combo for my 964 using RA-1; you would need to use a different brand for 235/265.

The diameter of the rear tire makes a noticeable difference in effective gearing. In back to back run sessions, I switched from 275/35 to 285/30 in the rear (Hoosier R6 18"), and the acceleration improvement was very evident. This was a diameter decrease of over half an inch (25.5" -> 24.9"). I also switched the fronts from 245/40 to 245/35 at the same time to keep the f/r diameter difference small (25.7" -> 24.7").

Note that I have made significant changes to the 964 in order to successfully run tires of these sizes: custom spacers, modified oil lines (RR), cut and rolled fenders, -3 degrees camber, custom valved dampers, 600/800# springs, and RS adjustable sways.

[jager911]

An update on brake pads, I spoke to Paul Weston of Weston Motorsports and for my intended use, he recommended the Hawk HT10s for track use with decent rotor wear and long life. I'll install them this w/e, change fluid and swap back to the street pads after my event at the Glen next week.

Another topic, I also ordered a Speedware SS harness bar and seats are next on the to-do list.

I have a pair of OMP San Remo seats I saved out of my '74 Targa before I sold it. They are very similar to Recaro SRD with maybe a little better bolstering. The mounting holes on the bottom measure 16" side-side. Can rails/sliders from an earlier 911 be adapted easily to mount these in the 993? How much of a PITA is it to remove stock seats and I believe the ECU lives under one of the seats, right? Any gotchas to watch out for? Do I need to fab custom brackets?