upgrade 3.2 to a 993 ?

[dave911]

Hi and seasons greetings to all 993 owners. I have a superb 87 carrera targa just about run in with 65k kms (40K mls ) on the clock. The quandary is I now am in a position to upgrade to a 993 (although I should probably be spending my money on more 'sensible' things ) the question is do I need to ? The 87 is a joy to drive ( although more performance would definitely be nice ) and cheap to run.
Twin air bags, ABS, 285hp, better suspension, power hood and air con that works are all the reasons I keep telling myself justify the upgrade, but I'd like to hear from a few 993 owners, especially those that have had a 3.2. Are you really happy with your 993's ? I believe they cost a fair bit more to run, parts and service costs ? They don't seem to sound as good and look a bit soft, especially the silver/ light colours. Does the varioram motor justify a few extra dollars ?
Help me spend some money here, how much better a car is the 993 ?

[Don Plumley]

I had an 87 Coupe and now have a 993. However, I sold the 87 so I could build a dedicated DE/Track car (follow link in my sig). The guy that bought my 87 had a pristine 993 that he did not want to put so many miles on. So it depends upon your perspective.

Pros (and only once you replace the stock POS shocks):
- Low end torque, top end speed. It's a monster in comparison
- Real HVAC. Cold AC is amazing.
- ABS
- Power steering (great with big tires in parking lots)
- No valves to adjust

Cons
- A bit more "isolated" from the road than the Carrera.
- Steering not quite as precise.
- You can tell it is a bigger, heavier car.
- Routine maint a bit more expensive (12 plugs, 2 oil filters, don't price plug wires)

Truly, they are wonderful cars, and if I spent any time in one, it's much more livable than an 87. You can get all the sound you want with a motorsound airbox (drill the cover) and/or cat bypass or different muffler.

As you said, the 87 is a joy to drive and relatively inexpensive to maintain.

It's all about what floats your boat...

(and they don't always look that soft):

[tshih]

I had an 87 coupe and a 1996 993 (wife's) tiptronic. They are worlds apart in terms of feel. Like Don said, it depends on what you are into and what you'll be using the car for. The 3.2 is much cheaper to maintain and demands more skill to drive fast on the track. The 993 is more 928 like so if you're thinking of moving in that direction (more comfort, etc) the downside will be less rawness as a tradeoff.

[dave911]

thanks guys for your replies, Don with the shocks you mean replace standard Boges with Bilsteins ? The boges are no good ? The black wheels on your car look a lot better than the standard cups, did you spray them or are they RS wheels ? I think its the power increase that will sway me, the 3.2 was quick in its day but is nervous of WRX's now. Apparently the 96 model onward is a better option with uprated suspension and of course the varioram. Better put the 3.2 up for sale. Did they make any widebody ragtop 993's??

[Don Plumley]

Standard shocks were Monroes. Yes, replace with Bilstein HD. Down under I assume you get ROW ride height, not US standard SUV height. But it's nice to bring it down a bit using M030 springs or aftermarket. You can also ignore all the SAI issues people bark about.

My wheels are stock cup II's, rattle can black.

[Harlan Chinn]

I made the jump from a 82SC to a 98 993CarreraS recently. My SC was well sorted, beautiful paint, SSI's stainless exhaust, 7/9 fuchs etc, just the perfect weekend car. Just this year, I found myself in a position where I could upgrade to something newer, so I began to search.

Reading up on the models, I decided that a 993 CS would be nice if I could find an example that was "bone stock" without a lot of aftermarket adds in the color combination that I most wanted.

I found the car that I would eventually buy from an owner's post here and on Rennlist.
Once I found this car, I realized that to me this car would be something pretty special. I even considered an alternative if the deal fell through, an 08 997 fully optioned, couldn't match in my opinion the 98 993CS for relative rarity and heck, it marked the last of the aircooled cars.

Looking back, I miss the SC for its simple raw feel of the road, the throatiness of the SSI's, and the smell of oil and leather in the cabin. The 993 is just more refined, with the engine sound kit when the engine kicks in you get that nice deep roar, while the strut brace stiffens the ride just enough to feel like an earlier car. Having had the car for only a few weeks, I haven't yet had the chance to use 5th or 6th gear. The jump from the 3.0 to 3.6 puts a on my face.

[RideShoot&Drink]

Had 964 for a year - liked it with Bilstein HD's and H&R reds, though could still feel weight
Drove 993 last weekend - didn't like it in stock, clean form, too civilized for my taste
Conclusion: will buy 87 and put 3.6 in there - makes the best of both worlds to me

You really need to drive them, to determine what your likes/preferences are, best of luck!

[Don Plumley]

If you like the power of the 993, prefer the AC, but want a more "raw feel"? Here are two paths I'd take:

993: Take out the weight, stiffen the suspension, cat bypass and/or motorsound airbox. I encourage anyone that thinks a 993 is "too detached" to drive mine. It weighs less than my 87 carrera and makes a pretty amazing noise. And I have cold AC

964: Ditto, with some older school looks and cheaper suspension mods.

RS&D: The challenge of putting a 3.6 into an 87 is all the other stuff you need to do: Brakes and suspension for the extra weight, and you still have that pathetic AC. Not a big problem here in the Bay Area, but not worth the weight. Done right, it's a great package. Look at Moses' car for example. But the teething pains he went through were not trivial. Hence I vote to lighten an already worthy 993 or 964 platform.

[aigel]

I upgraded from an SC. I needed better brakes and bigger wheels. Instead of dumping another 5k into the 25 year old SC, I decided to sell it and buy this:



The car had quite a few performance upgrades by the PO and is a blast to drive.

The car has been extremely reliable and I have spent very little money on it since I owned it. I have just had to do standard maintenance. Parts are more expensive like mentioned above but that's fine with me. Two oil filters are the result of the hydraulic lifters - I am happy to change two filters instead of one and skip the valve adjustments. Its a twin plug engine, so I am happy to pay for extra plugs. It has big red brakes, wouldn't you be happy to buy those huge pads?

That said, if you bang the car up, replacement parts for suspension, body panels etc. are very expensive. Those are much less on the 3.2, mainly because you can get them used.

Just a few thoughts.

George

[RideShoot&Drink]

Don, I'm with you on lightning/suspension mods on 993. In fact, I was the advocate of those changes vs. 3.6 conversion in earlier car, because 964/993 is a better base with better components to start with. I was planning this route myself for my C2...well, until I wrecked it. Now, I have a good lead on clean 87 and good engine with goodies from my C2 to do this conversion rather inexpensively (I hope). I had a hotrod with 3.3 Turbo and liked it a lot for it's raw, animal like feel, which was not the case with my C2 and bone stock 993 that I drove lately. However, C2 was much better all around car: more comfort, smoother, more weight, etc. But, I was always missing the raw feel of an earlier car, especially with upgraded engine. This brings us to the original question of this thread, Carrera vs. 993. Both are definitely members of the family, but with very distinct characters. Therefore, hopefully thread originator can drive them side by side and determine what would be a good fit.

[avidtest]

I love my 993, but if I had to choose between a stock 993 and a stock 87, I might opt for the 87 (assuming it was not a daily driver). However, with the mods, hands down, it's the 993 for me.

Here's a pic:

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by avidtest

I love my 993, but if I had to choose between a stock 993 and a stock 87, I might opt for the 87 (assuming it was not a daily driver). However, with the mods, hands down, it's the 993 for me.

Here's a pic:

Nice car!, but that doesn't appear to be a RoW front bumper

JMO but a nicely set up 993 (see Don' post for a good start, my '76 C3 and '95RS clone weigh within a few #s of each other) is the winner by a long shot.

[dave911]

thanks for your input guys, some very nice 993's there. George where those wheels one of the options for a 993 or aftermarket ? I'll start looking for one in the New year but Australia is a huge country with few 993's in it. A sobering thought for you guys, a good one is around
$80K and a C2S or C4S around $125K. Not too much difference between the aussie and US dollar at the moment either.....

[herman maire]

Originally Posted by dave911

thanks for your input guys, some very nice 993's there. George where those wheels one of the options for a 993 or aftermarket ? I'll start looking for one in the New year but Australia is a huge country with few 993's in it. A sobering thought for you guys, a good one is around
$80K and a C2S or C4S around $125K. Not too much difference between the aussie and US dollar at the moment either.....

Thats ALOT of money... In that case how much would your carrera bring if you sold it? If there is still a big diff in money I would probably stick with the carrera... tough call.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by dave911

thanks for your input guys, some very nice 993's there. George where those wheels one of the options for a 993 or aftermarket ? I'll start looking for one in the New year but Australia is a huge country with few 993's in it. A sobering thought for you guys, a good one is around
$80K and a C2S or C4S around $125K. Not too much difference between the aussie and US dollar at the moment either.....

The wheels are Fikse FM10 - aftermarket. They are forged three piece wheels. Very light and strong and they look a ton better than the stock wheels, IMHO. Here a shot with the stockers ...

George

[dave911]

The 87 would probably fetch around A$52K, so the gap isn't that huge. A new 997 is A$229K before you hit the option list... you guys don't know how good you've got it. George you got big reds on that as well ??

[aigel]

Yes, came with big reds from the P.O. The brakes are amazing, especially on the track!

George