Cross or PSS9?

[SLO-BOB]

I've read a lot of threads, and I've e-mailed various folks re: this topic. I'm getting ready to do the suspension thing, but I wanted to get a last round of opinions on this topic before I lay down the hard earned.

The history-

My mechanic recommends the PSS9. He knows my car and how I use it. We haven't discussed the Cross at all. His backround is definitely in racing. He just spent a bunch of time preparing cars for Sebring and he is the tech inspector for the PCA DEs in our region. He has wrenched/built a number of podium cars in our region. Overall very knowledgeable and I'm comfortable with his expertise. Therefore I'm inclined to take his advice.

However....current wisdom here seems to favor the Cross suspension. I respect the knowledge of the people who use Cross.

My car is mainly a street car. I take the wife to dinner, do weekend drives, and the usual running around. I would like to maximize my cars potential without ruining it for street use.

Cost-about the same.

[Bill Verburg]

While Cross is definitely a tad more hardcore than PSS9 it is also fine for ocasional street use.

I went w/ JIC

The things that I didn't like about PSS9
*spring rates
*PSS9 technicly has 9 adjustments, but they are in clusters of 3, so effectively you have 3 adjuments
*there isn' t a positive 'click' for adjusments
*camber plates are extra
*no remote adjusters

things I don't like about JIC
*rear drop links when used w/ TRG adjustable sways

[SLO-BOB]

Bill, So on the street would one feel a significant difference between the PSS9 and the lightest Cross springs as far as ride quality? I put about 8k of street miles on my car last year. I've communicated with Don P on this and I've read a number of your posts on the JIC stuff. I respect both your opinions.

Of course, I don't want to spend a lot of money for a little performance increase or an inferior product, which is my concern with the PSS9s. Your list of pros and cons makes perfect sense and I'm now leaning back to the Cross set up.

I guess I should also be asking if just the M030 would be the right choice for me.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally posted by SLO-BOB
Bill, So on the street would one feel a significant difference between the PSS9 and the lightest Cross springs as far as ride quality?

No, they will be roughly comparable, if you are mostly street then why not just get Bilstein HD? They aren't adjustable for damping but the ride height is fully adujustable as long as you get the full lenghth threaded versions. Lots cheaper too, and you have lots of spring choices as well

Originally posted by SLO-BOB
I guess I should also be asking if just the M030 would be the right choice for me.

I had the RoW M030 on mine when I bought it, it was a very nice street setup but the height adjusment just wasn't there.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
No, they will be roughly comparable, if you are mostly street then why not just get Bilstein HD? They aren't adjustable for damping but the ride height is fully adujustable as long as you get the full lenghth threaded versions. Lots cheaper too, and you have lots of spring choices as well

Forgive my ignorance but-I'm guessing I would get the shocks and springs seperate, such as the Bil HDs and H&R springs. I know that's how it would be on my BMWs, but I'm still getting to know 964 Porsche parts. If that's the case, what springs and spring rates would you recommend?

[Bill Verburg]

Carnewal has fully threaded Bilstein HD w/ matched H&R coilovers
Pelican has full H&R coil overs in 3 varieties, street, sport and race
I suspect Pelican can put together a Bilstein/H&R package as well

I don't know what spring rates are

For JIC I'm using 400/450 lb springs, others are using 560/670 lb

[Tom W]

I second Bill's advice. I have PSS-9s on my 993 daily driver and JIC on my 964 track car. I prefer the JIC for the reasons Bill stated, but for a mostly street and occasional track car, I'd also suggest going simple and less expensive. Unless you are a very experience and very competitive driver trying to gain that last few tenths to beat a friend, the simple solution is likely the best.

The spring rate is a personal preference issue. More firm is better for the track (I'm now running 800/1000), but is not fun for the street. I'd think you would likely be very happy with a street or sport package. Stay away from a track package for significant street use.

[SLO-BOB]

Thnaks guys for the help. It's becoming a little bit clearer now. I'll look into getting a matched bilstein/spring combo.

Last question - I read that one of the better things about the JIC setup was that you don't have to change preload to corner weight. How about the bilstein/spring route?

[mjshira]

I have the cross set up and with a race bucket, it can be a rough street ride. But when I put a better seat with more street capabilities, it was much better. Taken with my RSA steering set up (no power) the car feels AWESOME. When I put her into a corner, it is a whole new ball game over my more RS set up 964. I vote cross, high quality stuff

[Tom W]

I can't answer about changing preload when you corner weigh and align the car. But - unless you are spending lots of time trying to perfect the suspension set-up, it's a moot point. You do it once and it's good for years.

While my track car gets corner weighed and aligned a couple times a year due to the ongoing efforts to perfect the suspension, my daily driver hasn't been touched in 3 years and still handles great.

[SLO-BOB]

Tom-that makes sense. Thanks again.

James-when did you get the RS clone? I would love to hear more about that! Pics!

[mjshira]

I got the car a couple weeks a go and am busy working on it while my red car is in the shop. she has a cross set up with an RSA steering rack, cup wheels (the Porsche made ones) and is lowered. She will have B&B exhaust and an engine with some 'special' updates.

[RideShoot&Drink]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
...if you are mostly street then why not just get Bilstein HD? They aren't adjustable for damping but the ride height is fully adujustable as long as you get the full lenghth threaded versions. Lots cheaper too, and you have lots of spring choices as well

I had the RoW M030 on mine when I bought it, it was a very nice street setup but the height adjusment just wasn't there.

Ouch...I just ordered Bilstein HD from Shox.com...and now wonder if they have extra thread for ride height adjustment, I want my car to be set at RS height...as far as sping goes, does anybody have H&R part number for the turbo spring (red one). I spoke with the guy from Shox.com and he told me that their turbo spring is actually black...go figure.

[mjshira]

you can get RS height, no problem.

[Alan Goettel]

Originally posted by RideShoot&Drink
Ouch...I just ordered Bilstein HD from Shox.com...and now wonder if they have extra thread for ride height adjustment, I want my car to be set at RS height...as far as sping goes, does anybody have H&R part number for the turbo spring (red one). I spoke with the guy from Shox.com and he told me that their turbo spring is actually black...go figure.

I just got a set of turbo H&Rs from Tirerack last week. They said black, but were red. $315, check it out.

Alan

[SLO-BOB]

NOw I am considering Koni sports and H&R green (?) springs.

[RideShoot&Drink]

Originally posted by Alan Goettel
I just got a set of turbo H&Rs from Tirerack last week. They said black, but were red. $315, check it out.

Alan

Thanks for the info Alan, because folks at Shox.com weren't sure about the spring, I ordered it from Tirerack, should be here any day, I'm anxiously waiting for the arrival. Thanks again for the info .

[ThunderboltVIII]

What does everyone think of the KW coilover set they have out there?

[alexmurp]

buy the cross or the bilstien they both can be revalved and upgraded or rebuilt the pss9 is crimped at the top and cant be serviced i have the cross with the heaviest springs and there great good for the track but they offer lighter springs good luck alex..

[stealthn]

SB,

I think p-car.com has a great article on the different setups.