997 vs 993 can you relate?

[NickP]

Over the years I've owned a bunch of Porsche's, all 911's from every series. I've balanced things by having an older car along with Porsche's latest. Old tech and high tech. Currently I have a 1973 911S coupe that I bought in France 5 years ago. Its been my favorite of the many I've owned and I'll never sell it. I also have a 2006 Carrera S, Atlas Gray over black with ceramic brakes and a bunch of other goodies. Its fast, comfortable, reliable, the A/C is great, well...you get it. Yet, after 3 years of owning it I'm ready to move on because, as great a car as it is, it lacks the soul and character of the older air-cooled cars. It feels mass produced and there is too much plastic used. It makes you a better driver than you are, and maybe that's the biggest issue, it doesn't require the concentration or skill like an older Porsche to drive it well. Am I nuts here?

The one air-cooled 911 that I've missed more than any after selling was a 97' 993 cab. I still regret trading that for a POS 02' 996 cab that had RMS issues and squeaked like an old lawn chair supporting a 300 pound guy.

I'm focused on finding a 993 Carrera S to satisfy my "need" for a modern car to complement my 73S. I can't think of a better line up. Just thought I'd share this with an understanding, sympathetic bunch. I need to sell the 997 first; too much carnage in any sort of trade in from the few dealer calls I've made. Ouch. This is not a financially derived decision, although the 993 will retain value way better than what's happening to the water-pumpers. Thank goodness my wife understands me!

Cheers

[911nut]

Originally Posted by NickP

....because, as great a car as it is, it lacks the soul and character of the older air-cooled cars. It feels mass produced and there is too much plastic used. It makes you a better driver than you are, and maybe that's the biggest issue, it doesn't require the concentration or skill like an older Porsche to drive it well. Am I nuts here?

Funny, the guy that bought my '81 SC said he did so because his 964 "lacked soul" also.
As for myself, I really don't miss the SC; my Turbo is faster (a big plus), has more advanced suspension and functioning a/c.
If I were a collector I'd certainly want an old 911S, but for driving I'll take as new as technology as I can get because the performance will be that much better and hence more fun to drive.
As for the mass produced thing, well all cars are built the same way (automated body framing, paint by robots followed by human operators performing trim and final assembly). I think that Porsche builds 21 cars an hour in a two shift operation so that's not really a mass produced car. Maybe what you are detecting is the increasing modular design of components and trim. As for the plastic, the 997 is overweight as it is so that plastic prevents it from being an all-out lead sled.
Tell you what, I'll take that 997 off your hands for $500

[johnsjmc]

I sold my 1980 SC hotrod with a 3.6 and bought a 996. I only had it for three months before I decided it was more like a Mustang or Firebird. Sold it and bought a 95 993 C2 The 993 has more miles and needs a bunch of little things fixed but I love it

[Sitparan]

993 Carrera S is one of the best looking Porsches ever. You should so get one. As they are semi-collectable these days there are quite a few out there in good nick.
With the standard Carrera suspension the ride is not too harsh, partcularly if you have them with the standard Carrera wheels (though the 18 inch turbo wheels look way cooler)

[cgfen]

Originally Posted by NickP

I'm focused on finding a 993 Carrera S to satisfy my "need" for a modern car to complement my 73S. I can't think of a better line up. Just thought I'd share this with an understanding, sympathetic bunch. I need to sell the 997 first; too much carnage in any sort of trade in from the few dealer calls I've made. Ouch. This is not a financially derived decision, although the 993 will retain value way better than what's happening to the water-pumpers. Thank goodness my wife understands me!

Cheers

pm me and we'll chat.
We have an 09 2S and a 96 4S

i'm in Carlsbad so you can buy me a beer at pizza port or the ritual and pick my brain

Craig

[NickP]

Thanks Craig- I sent you a PM.

Good input guys, I appreciate it. Its easy to go back and forth. I know I'll sacrifice performance going to a 993, and that tugs at me for sure. If I were using the Porsche as a daily driver, there would be no debate, I'd keep the 997. I drive my Porsche on weekends, I like roaming the back roads of SD county, and I take it on drives, just to drive.

Part of my enjoyment from these cars is also the tinkering, improving and garage time. There isn't much to do on the 997 in that regard compared to an older car.

Regarding the mass produced comment I made, its more about the number of 997's out there, the 993 was practically hand built and the production numbers were far less. There are just far fewer of them on the road and I like that.

Nick

[Russ993TT]

I think the 993 S is the BEST 911 compromise between modern function and still having a blast driving it.

[Oracle]

Probably.. but lacks the classic 911 look. So for me the 964 is a better package.

Originally Posted by Russ993TT

I think the 993 S is the BEST 911 compromise between modern function and still having a blast driving it.

[herman maire]

I had a 993 with quite a lot of mods, for me, it did not have enough HP...... go try a 993 turbo, that would be a keeper. regular 993 is just to weak.... sorry guys.

[racer]

Originally Posted by NickP

I drive my Porsche on weekends, I like roaming the back roads of SD county, and I take it on drives, just to drive.

Part of my enjoyment from these cars is also the tinkering, improving and garage time. There isn't much to do on the 997 in that regard compared to an older car.

Sounds like a great reason to have the 73S.

Would you use the "other" one for the same purpose? It sounds like it won't be as a daily driver. Did you like your 993 because it was a 993 or because it was a Cab? Is an issue here of wanting both a coupe and a convertible.. moreso than simple "old vs newer"?

Maybe just sell the 997 for now.. stick with the 73S, solo, for a bit.

it seems to me that once you have an "old one" any "newer" version feels like a let down. Hmm.. maybe a 356 cab to go with the 73

[NickP]

I had a 64 356 C cabriolet that I did a complete ground up restoration on about 5 years ago. Great car, but not nearly enough power to be really fun. Sunday am to Starbucks or breakfast with the wife, that's where I drove that car. I also went on a few West Coast Holiday events with the 356 club which was fun as well. I sold that car and got the 997 so maybe it's just that itch for something new, err...different that captures our attention every couple of years.

I do agree with Russ, a 993 is still a pretty modern car, especially next to the 73 911, and I think the 993 S is visually among the best looking Porsche's of all time. A 993 Turbo in A+ condition would be a consideration, but it's above the budget. I'm trying not to spend very much on this swap in this uncertain economy.

Racer, I don't think a 993 will be a let down at all, and from a driving perspective a cab vas a coupe is a toss up. I love the open car experience, I mean, how do you not, especially living in San Diego. I also like the stiffness of a coupe over an open car, they are just more solid and predictable. I also like the lines of the coupe better.

I'm an occasional autocross and track guy, like 3 times a year, and I use my 73 for those events, and it's a blast. That car with it's 210 HP motor (my car has a real RS motor in it) is well suited for SOW and Buttonwillow (#13), and I have a long way to go to find it's limits. I used to autocross in my 993 cab and that was great fun as well. I'm more about the overall ownership experience rather than having the car that has the most performance potential.

Finally, and we can all admit and agree...the debate, research, search, and chase is also fun.

Nick

[bcaway]

I drove a 997 gt3 on the track and although I thought it was quick and presise, I just didnt feel that connected. I much rather drive my RUF turbo rear wheel drive around the track, a real drivers car that requires all your reactions all the time.

I also have a 98 C2s and an early one, I love both with a passion, but they are hard to compare as they are so different. I love the lightness and rawness of the 74, its such a drivers car, but the harsh suspension, noisy 915 and engine, rattles, etc its not fun after about 1 hr in the seat. So I love it just for short windy drives. it stops quick and corners quick.


The 993 on the other hand still retains much of the drivers feel with no electrics except abs. I dont notice a lack of feel with the power steering, or power brakes, and love the handling. Its so much more planted than the 74, I also enjoy the little luxuries, like a/c, quietness, and better ride/stability as I get older. Best of all I love the shape! they are the same doors and windows as the early car, and the chassis mimics the original shape but with a much more sexy wide body.

The 993 negatives, I just dont like the weight, they are heavy in comparison and I hate the tall final drive ratio that is your only option unless one buys a complete set of racing gears for the 6 speed "$$$". It makes the car feel slow. I used a g meter in both cars and found it interesting they both accelerate the same 0-60 5.2 seconds. Another 100 horsepower and it would be a fine car indeed~

just my 2 cents...

[911nut]

Originally Posted by bcaway

I drove a 997 gt3 on the track and although I thought it was quick and precise, I just didn't feel that connected.

That is the definition of connected. A car that goes exactly where you want it to go. It doesn't get any more connected than that.

[cgfen]

Originally Posted by NickP

Finally, and we can all admit and agree...the debate, research, search, and chase is also fun.

Nick

indeed it is, my friends called me "the proctologist" in my 10+ month search for the right 993. The people at TruSpeed and AutoKennel took to "flinching" when i would walk in the door.

Originally Posted by bcaway

Another 100 horsepower and it would be a fine car indeed~

just my 2 cents...

"a fine car", no no, it would be a fabulous car if still NA!

Nick, looking forward to meeting you.

best
Craig


Decisions Decisions

[bcaway]

Originally Posted by 911nut

That is the definition of connected. A car that goes exactly where you want it to go. It doesn't get any more connected than that.

I was referring to the feel of the brakes, and steering. I would love to own a gt3 RS. The GT3 I drove was extremely precise and responsive but I noticed I had less feel of what the tires or brakes were doing compared to my early car with no power brakes or steering is all im saying.

When I pushed to the GT3 to the limit, there were no signs of anything impending, not even tire squeal, it simply exceeded the traction limit and instantly spun. Could have been a tire choice/ wear issue, don't know wasn't my car.

That would not stop me owning one, Its just a different animal to tame is all. I love them and its next on my list!