964 questions

[Esel Mann]

Hi guys,

I just picked up a wonderful '93 C2. Man the difference between it and an 84 911's A/C is something. I no longer need a drain hole underneath my seat for all the sweat! I've got some questions:

1 - powerband

I noticed that it seems my C2 seems to "come to life" and go like a raped ape somewhere around about 3700 or so. Is this typical? I looked at a powerband for the the C2 and it does seem shifted a tad when compared to for example a '84 911. My 84 has not been run for 3 years, but I do distinctly recall it starting to at least "come to life" around 2900 - 3100. It just seems like my rinky dink 84 911 had more pep at lower rpms. I thought that odd seeing as an upgrade for the older 911's is to use 964 cams.

2 - clutch pedal travel

So the clutch pedal appears to have two positions (I suspect that this is not normal). One position is slightly lower than the brake pedal (about an 1") and the other position is even with the brake pedal. I pulled off the pedal board to take a look see. From what I can see the clutch pedal has yet another tiny linkage to the spring (by way of a metal rectangular clip and some sort of plastic thingy) and that 1" or so difference is between whether the tiny linkage is fully extended or not.

So for example if I were to drive without a shoe on my left foot, when I depress the clutch and release it either comes in line with the brake pedal or about 1" shallower. When it is shallow, I can curl my toes over the clutch pedal and "pop" it even with the brake pedal.


3 - Anyone feel the Bentley manual worthy of picking up for 964s? With 964 shop manuals running $650+, I would prefer to postpone that acquisition to instead allocate the $$$ to fixing all the minor things that need tending to for a car of such age.

[vbaron]

The 964 I purchased last year is my first 911 and the high end power rush is definitely the first I noticed. Is it more prevalent on 964s? I love that feeling!

As for the clutch pedal travel, I feel that travel also, but it "pops" up by itself after a second or two. I would also be interested as to whether that is expected.

The book? I have Adrian Streather's, but have not picked up the Bentley or shop manuals. I would have the same question as Esel...

Vin

[Esel Mann]

Hey vbaron,

For the pep issue, this weekend I am going to check the air filter and also check that the pedal when fully depressed produces a WOT at the throttle body. From there I'll simply keep looking at the simple items to rule them out.

For the clutch pedal, I found that rennlist has some older discussions regarding this. What I gathered is like above, proceed with the simple items first and then progress to the more complex. It does sound like (from the rennlist discussions) perhaps the clutch needs to be bled. I don't have time for this this weekend so I am going to have to do that later. The other thing I noticed is the rubber boot on the main cyclinder is torn and inside I see the exposed rod looks dirty and not very lubricated. So I am going to clean that and lube with lithium grease. I gather that will help things and the clutch pedal will then begin to "pop" back after a couple of seconds. I'm guessing to get a more instantaneous "pop" back will be solved with bleeding the clutch.

[jpachard]

Esel, I had the same clutch issue on my '93 and it was cured by a little lubrication as you described. I too had a 3.2 and the 3.6 is a very different animal. It's a fantastic engine!!

Enjoy the new ride and let me know if you ever need any A/C components since i gutted all mine.

Cheers, James

[Flying Dutchman]

congratulations on the 964

there are free manuals out there for the 964, for upgrades or specific detailed repair manuals just search for the diy's online at rennlist (specific subforum) or search at pelican or rennlist. Next to that there are a few books explaining upgrades or maintenance. There are even youtube videos on some jobs.

enjoy it! already thought about exhaust/intake upgrades to make it sound like you are travelling with warp speed?

[Esel Mann]

Nope, no thoughts at this time for exhaust/intake upgrades. CV joints are on the immediate horizon. I have an 84 911 which I let sit for ~3 years and it appears that after discovering that there is another Porsche in the commune, it has decided to be a royal $^%$&^*&*!!!! I had to replace the injectors (frozen) and now it appears the fuel pump has crapped out.

So as far as 964 land here is what I have learned/done:

- In college, the saying used to be the smaller the book, the more information there was in it worth learning. How does that tie into the 964? Well, if I were to use the Carrera Bentley manual as a benchmark (aka the telephone book), the Bentley manual for the 964 is maybe a magazine at best. For the 964, it basically covers the basics with respect to engine, tranny. However if for example you want to look things over regarding the sunroof.... Nada. It's a reasonable reference for some details but, other references are needed. Thus far the pelican board has been (and rennlist too) not too shabby with respect to information on 964s!

- Clutch pedal issue. I tried lubing the master cylinder. I also tried flushing the fluid too. While each showed an improvement, after a short drive things were back to the way it was before (pedal wouldn't come to top and shifting became almost impossible). Because I didn't know how long ago the tranny fluid was changed, I did that (for the shifting issue). No change with the symptoms but the tranny fluid definitely needed a change so nothing lost there. So I proceeded to order: master cylinder, slave cylinder, and slave cylinder host, yellow brake fluid (of course from our most excellence host with the most, thanks Wayne for having it all in stock!).

It didn't seem as the master cylinder was the problem, however since the rubber boot was shot, I suspect that I was on borrowed time and it seemed appropriate to replace. I chose the yellow fluid because it appears that there is some discussion of concern that the blue fluid may not be appropriate (something to do with it eats as the seals)? More research is needed on the blue fluid however. Since I swap yellow/blue in my 84 brakes I knew yellow could be an acceptable starting point.

Replacement of the master cylinder wasn't too hard. The big thing is make sure to wrap the lines with a towel as they are removed so that any fluid is caught by the towel. For the input line, after removal, I put it into a 2L bottle to let it drain (very small amount but enough to make a mess if not dealt with). Once drained I simply put the input line back into the towel.

Next in line was the slave cylinder and hose. Of note, remove the heat exchanger air tube (it's easy) to give adequate room to do things. Breaking torque on the slave cylinder host to line is best done with that side of the car jacked up high and the mechanic underneath. After that, dealing with the slave cylinder is best done from the side. Upon removal of the slave cylinder and slave hose I found that the slave hose was decomposing at the slave cylinder side. So like old brake lines, there was definite swelling and there was what appeared to be separation of the slave hose itself. The slave cylinder was surprisingly in good shape. However since I had a new one I simply replaced it. Probably not a bad idea as I suspect it was from '93. Now in getting that slave cylinder back in...... Let's just say, throw out what you think your arms should do. Intertwine and cross them over and under, push the cylinder in and onto the bolts with the arm you think you shouldn't do it with and with the other, get the nuts started. From there, it will go on with no trouble.

However once there, I was not out of the woods. Time to bleed! I do not have one of those speed bleeders which push the fluid through, instead I have the old school vacuum bleeder which pulls the fluid through. I did try the simple gravity approach. Believe it or not, it was actually working. However it was like watching IV drops. At the rate it was going, well, I'd be still bleeding into next month. The vacuum bleeder was not much faster. Took patience and a few hours to pull out all the air. However once the air was out, the clutch does appear to function properly.

Summary of degree of inconvenience and difficulty:

Master clutch cylinder replacement: Low level vulgar language.
Slave cylinder replacement: Some choice words, yoga moves, approaching ball-buster level.
Clutch system bleed following the replacement (vacuum bleed method): Pain-in-the-balls level but they'll still be there when done. Vacuum pump hand gets lots of exercise. Use your non-you-know hand and it will balance out hands and forearms. You'll look balance afterwards!!!


So while I was under there what I noticed (besides the oil leaks) was that the CV boots at the wheel side are broke apart (both wheels). No matter what they gotta come out. I thought about simply cleaning and regreasing, but something tells me to simple replace.... However that is a project for after I replace the sunroof seals and deflector bars and fix that CCU fan draining the battery.

[vbaron]

Sounds like your clutch problem was more severe than mine, good to hear you have addressed the issue. I'll be bleeding my system over the winter and I'll lube the master, although with all the rain in the NorthEast, I haven't been driving her much anyway!

Vin