Valve adjustment, etc. gone wrong

[iamtheari]

Well, I finished my project last night and waited until I got home from work today with the sun still up before trying to start the car. I'm glad I did, as it did not go well.

I put in a base fill of 7 qt. of oil and a full tank of steering fluid since the car had been drained of oil about 2 months ago and has a newly rebuilt steering rack. I cranked the starter with the DME relay out until the oil pressure needle moved to a comfortable spot, then replaced the DME relay and started the car up for a few seconds before killing it to check the steering fluid level and top it up, per the procedure in the workshop manual and described elsewhere here.

Unfortunately, not all went well. I have the following problems:

1. Rattle from engine, probably due to very amateurish valve adjustment despite going through them all 3 times with the standard procedure plus twice using the backside method and thinking I had them all set right.

2. Oil leak above driver-side heat exchanger. The best I can tell with my eyes is it's the oil return pipe that I replaced and maybe did not tighten enough. I do not have a crow-foot socket in 36mm so I had to do it by hand with a large crescent wrench and did not want to overtighten it. I can't see the leak for certain, just a steady drip of oil off the heat exchanger and what appears to be a drip coming from the new pipe's fitting.

3. Steering leak. The best I can tell is that it's coming from the lower of the two lines connected to the steering rack. I'm hoping I didn't crossthread the banjo bolt. It seemed to go in fine albeit a bit stiff and I torqued it to spec despite the horrendously awkward angle.

So, now to see if I can, in the next 10 days before I leave for a long trip (by plane) and leave my car to be teched for the first DE of the spring, get these three items fixed. Not to mention item #4, my bumper not quite matching up to its old position. (See this thread: Rear Bumper Installation / Adjustment.)

Any advice? How much oil am I going to be throwing away if I drain the crankcase before removing the lower valve covers? I am not excited about taking the heat exchangers off again but at least the nuts shouldn't have rusted on as badly in the past 2 days as they did in the preceding 23 years. And the steering rack is definitely going to be the death of me. I thought it leaked bad before getting rebuilt.

I am going to try my best to relax and to approach this methodically. It's hard to do so, however, especially since the nearest qualified helper is 180 miles away and I have no way to get the car to him even if the clock were not working against me. I hope I'm not the only one who has gone through this and I hope the others have come out smelling rosy to help inspire some of my now-much-bruised confidence!

[JJ 911SC]

Builds Character... Apparently

2 years ago I did my first valve job. Didn't even know what a valve look like let alone get the "blade dragging on a magnet" feel... Did it the normal way and double check with the backside way.

Spend hours doing it over a few sessions. Every time I was happy, 2 days later they seem all out of the adjustment I had achieved previously. After a while, I had to close her up.

In February I drop the engine and proceed for my second valve adjustment. They were all thigh.

So far this time, I did them 3 times over, and I'm hoping yesterday was my last one. None seem tight confirm by the backside and we'll see or hear when I get her going.

The valve noise will be the least of my worry since I'm converting to EFI... If she start right away, I'll be happy.

Hang in there

[iamtheari]

I'm starting on the steering leak since it is not hot enough to burn me and requires less R&R to test. Attempt #1 was an unmitigated failure: Instead of a dripping leak, it squirted fluid clear from the steering rack to beyond the rear of the car. At least I hope that's what happened to get oil drops all the way back there.

The banjo bolt on the pressure side of the rack turns smoothly a ways and then it gets stiffer, to the point that it is impossible to turn by hand in the tight spaces. (Ever notice how working on these cars, you are mostly working on parts you can't see in places you can't reach?) It turns smoothly, just stiffly, the rest of the way in. I didn't torque it down this time so maybe that's why it sprayed on me. I don't see any thread damage on the banjo bolt. A couple of tiny imperfections but nothing that indicates to me it was badly cross-threaded.

I was frustrated often in this project, but this is the first time I've been afraid of something. The engine oil leak I feel is most likely due to not tightening the pipe down enough. The valve adjustment is irritating because it involves removing the valve covers, adjusting the valves through a puddle of oil, putting them back on, pouring in more oil, starting the car, and praying. That's all straightforward albeit annoying and time-consuming as hell. But the steering thing is actually scary since I don't know what to do differently. And it's almost unfathomable to get a replacement banjo bolt here before the weekend. A steering rack even if I wanted to burn money replacing one that I just paid $270 to have rebuilt is totally out of the question.

Back to the car for another attempt. Trying to maintain faith and patience. Both are in short supply this evening.

On the plus side, I do appear to have connected the spark plug wires correctly as the car only runs rough in the "hey, my DME was unpowered for 2 months, give me a minute to get back into shape" way as far as I can tell. Then again maybe I messed that up badly as well. My competence has no lower bound...

[iamtheari]

P.S. Your engine looks beautiful. I wish mine were as able to bring a smile tonight.

[iamtheari]

Update: I'm quitting for the night. Next opportunity to work on the car will be Thursday, unfortunately. But I do believe the steering leak is taken care of. Third time's a charm, as they say. I removed the banjo bolt again, pushed the line out of the way, turned the bolt in all the way down to the bottom of the threads to make sure it was just stiff and not binding at any particular point. It appeared to be straight into the rack as best as I could tell, and I tried many times to thread it in at different angles and never found one that would accept it other than the one it was at, so I am fairly convinced it isn't cross-threaded.

So next I got it started again with the copper washers and line in place and torqued it to the specified 15 ft-lbs. This time, though, I had a better angle on it than whatever insane angle that I can't now remember which I used the first time to get the torque wrench on it. By jacking up the suspension on that corner about an inch, I was able to get a straight shot using my very long, medium, and short extensions together to get from the wheel well to the banjo bolt. I started the car, no leak. Then remembered I had no fluid in the tank from the last time I removed the line, so I put some in, at least enough to most likely leak if it was going to, and tried again, with not a drop on the ground that I've seen so far.

It will require further testing, but that will be after I drop the heat exchangers, tighten the oil line, replace the heat exchangers, remove the cat and the secondary muffler, remove the valve covers, adjust the valves, put everything back together, guesstimate how much oil to put back in, and cross all my fingers that I am back up and running.

Thanks to everyone who is praying to the Porsche gods to intercede on my behalf. Maybe this will be okay...

[bazar01]

Originally Posted by iamtheari

Unfortunately, not all went well. I have the following problems:

1. Rattle from engine, probably due to very amateurish valve adjustment despite going through them all 3 times with the standard procedure plus twice using the backside method and thinking I had them all set right.

2. Oil leak above driver-side heat exchanger. The best I can tell with my eyes is it's the oil return pipe that I replaced and maybe did not tighten enough. I do not have a crow-foot socket in 36mm so I had to do it by hand with a large crescent wrench and did not want to overtighten it. I can't see the leak for certain, just a steady drip of oil off the heat exchanger and what appears to be a drip coming from the new pipe's fitting.

3. Steering leak. The best I can tell is that it's coming from the lower of the two lines connected to the steering rack. I'm hoping I didn't crossthread the banjo bolt. It seemed to go in fine albeit a bit stiff and I torqued it to spec despite the horrendously awkward angle.


Any advice? How much oil am I going to be throwing away if I drain the crankcase before removing the lower valve covers? I am not excited about taking the heat exchangers off again but at least the nuts shouldn't have rusted on as badly in the past 2 days as they did in the preceding 23 years. And the steering rack is definitely going to be the death of me. I thought it leaked bad before getting rebuilt.

I am going to try my best to relax and to approach this methodically. It's hard to do so, however, especially since the nearest qualified helper is 180 miles away and I have no way to get the car to him even if the clock were not working against me. I hope I'm not the only one who has gone through this and I hope the others have come out smelling rosy to help inspire some of my now-much-bruised confidence!

1. Unlikely from the valve adjustment. Could be a loose exhaust heat shield. Did you happen to remove the cat and associated heat shields?

2. The oil line on the driver side is the scavenge pump discharge and really not subjected to high oil pressure unless the oil filter is clogged or it has a bad aluminum crush washer. You can snug that fitting with a regular open wrench but you have to loosen the fitting nut first then tighten the straight fitting with the crush washer. Just be careful not to dent the oil return tube with the 36 mm open wrench.

3. You already addressed this.

Good luck.

[iamtheari]

Bazar:

Thanks for your response.

1. I removed the entire exhaust system piece by piece. (I have heat exchangers, factory cat, primary bypass, and factory secondary muffler. I did not remove the exhaust tip from the muffler but the rest came off one item at a time.) I removed the two side heat shields, two side engine tin pieces, and rear engine tin along with the engine carrier. I thought I had done a decent job putting it all back together but the next time I start the car I will try pushing on any of those pieces I can. The rattle is pretty severe and if I get time to record some video tonight I will post it as sound is very hard to describe.

2. I replaced the fitting and the crush washer, and torqued it to the specified 50 ft-lbs. Then I installed the new return pipe to the fitting using one wrap of teflon tape and a few turns with a crescent wrench. The oil on my catch pan beneath there is flowing off the heat exchanger toward the inside and I looked above it the best I could to find oil coming from the pipe. I feel confident that it is the source. It's not a high-pressure line, but it has enough pressure that a loose fitting will result in a leak. Of course, I previously had confidence that the car would start up and have no leaks or weird noises whatsoever and look where that got me. The only other work I did in that vicinity was replacing the one return tube closest to the pipe since I needed it out of the way to get the old pipe and fitting removed. I installed it using NAPA Syl-Glide on the O-rings, two hose clamps for grip, and two pry bars against each other to separate the hose clamps until it was seated on both sides and the snap ring could be put into place.

3. We can only hope that I did. I did not fill the fluid to the top for the last test, so it's possible that I just didn't give it enough fluid to leak.

4. Did you see my bumper issue? Any thoughts on adjusting the bumper fitment to close the gap?

[Green993]

Just a note on the steering. Did you turn the steering wheel side to side 20 times with the engine off? This is to get the air bublles out of the system.

Good luck.

[iamtheari]

Green993: No, I did not. The manual did not seem to call for it but it sounds sensible.

Bazar: I was searching for other people with engine noise issues and your thread from a month ago came up. Did you ever record the sound you were having? I wonder how similar it is to mine. Hoping to record it tonight still.

I also was thinking: When I removed the right-side chain tensioner cover, the tensioner mechanism fell out before I could catch it and had to judge the correct reinstallation direction from the other side. Is there any chance my sounds could be caused by putting it in the wrong way without having other problems right away? This would be a relatively easy part to remove and put back in without disassembling the whole rear end of the car all over again.

Thanks guys. Last night started with excitement, quickly turned to abject terror and frustration, and ended with a little bit of hope. I still haven't canceled my tech inspection for the first DE of the spring...

[Green993]

The orientation of the chain tensioner is important to oil flow. Not sure if it is causing the sound but I would check to make sure the oil hole at the tip is pointing down (towards the ground).

[iamtheari]

I oriented it based on the small piston vs. the bigger housing and used the other one as a reference. It will be relatively easy to pull them both and check orientation with respect to the oil hole (which I did not know existed, but makes very good sense given the purpose and operational principle of the device). Thanks. Hoping it's that simple...

[Green993]

Do you have a 964 or 993? I'm assuming they both use the same tensioner (as listed on our host's site). Another thing to check if you removed the left one is to make sure the left is on the left side and the right on the right side. They are different. This is a common mistake on rebuilds and one that I myself have made (I installed the right side upside down). This can cause an oil blockage.

A is left. B is right.

[iamtheari]

Green993: Mine is a 964. I did not notice the difference between the tensioners when I had them both out at the same time. And I owe you at least a case of beer. The right-side tensioner was very easy to get at (just had to remove the heat cross-over pipe, but it will save a little hassle when I remove the heat exchangers to fix the leaky oil tube later this week) and I indeed had installed it backwards. You saved me a lot of time listening to every little part of the engine compartment, time removing exhaust parts and valve covers, time adjusting valves once again, time closing it back up, and time testing the engine just to find it still rattled. I figure you turned my planned project of at least 4 hours which would have failed into one that I did within 20 minutes and succeeded. Make it two cases of beer.

The steering fluid leak also seems to be gone. I ran the car for about a minute now with no rattling and topped up the fluid a couple times in the process, turning the wheel from lock to approximate lock (missing the left tie rod assembly means I only have one actual lock at the moment) a couple of times. All appears well and I can check the cardboard sheet in the morning for evidence to the contrary.

So now I am down to the leaky oil return pipe (just tighten the fitting, most likely, but dropping heat exchangers will turn that into a longer project) and adjusting the bumper (see my other thread regarding that as I found in the manual where the adjustments are and now just need to figure out how they work).

If my inner tie rod end gets shipped (ordered Monday morning from a place that confirmed it was in stock and awaiting shipment notification still...) I will likely be in good shape.

Bad Monday, great Tuesday. Thanks so far, everyone. My car is no longer for sale as a lawn ornament.

[Green993]

Glad I could help! I am just passing along the good karma I have received from others.

On to the oil return tube. Are you sure that it is leaking? I noticed on mine there was a little oil from when I installed the o-rings. Wiped it down and no more leak. Or it could be they are not firmly seated into position? Also, as noted above - check to make sure they are the right size.

Also, many people use Dow 111 sealant/lubricant on the o-ring. I just used oil to ensure a seal.

[iamtheari]

Your karma is good.

Oil flows (not quite a steady stream but much more than a drip) off the inner edge of the driver-side heat exchanger onto the floor when the engine is running and stops shortly after the engine is shut off. It is definitely an active leak.

And I apologize for confusion on the source of the leak. I am able to look over the edge of the heat exchanger for the likely source and it appears to be the oil return pipe, as in the big one that screws (36mm nut) onto a threaded fitting (32mm nut) that is itself screwed (51 ft-lb with an oil drain crush washer) into the crankcase. This is the one that returns oil from the left side of the crankcase, around the back of the engine, then up to the oil filter console. The leak could instead be the return tube, as in the expandable replacement part that drains oil. Both of those are new from my project. But a large drop of oil is present on the bigger pipe near its fitting so that seems more likely, especially with my inadequate tools to torque it to the threaded fitting.

I used Syl-Glide from NAPA to lightly lubricate the O-rings on the expandable return tube. That was the closest to Dow 111 that I could find locally. I tried just oil but it was a touch too stubborn that way.

I have to take the HEs off either way, and will check both of those when I do so. Also the oil relief bolt, which I tightened but not to the specified torque (44 ft-lb) as it just didn't feel right. I will check that as well and may just remove it, clean it up, and replace it (hopefully not backwards!) while I'm in there again.

[Green993]

Sorry, I was thinking of the tubes between cam tower and crankcase. As for the big nut - i didn't have the giant wrench needed so I used a big pair of vice grips to tighten. Is it leaking from where it connects at the engine or further up? I believe the metal pipe turns into a rubber portion further up. Perhaps one of the screw clamps that hold the rubber on is not tight.

Regarding oil leaks I have found it essential to clean the entire area first to be able to detect the source of leaks.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[iamtheari]

I replaced the big pipe with a new one, which has no rubber or pipe clamps. The flexible portion is a braided steel design. That is all near the back of the engine and not leaking as far as I can tell. I will look again to be sure. The drop of oil is near the big nut where it attaches to the crankcase fitting. I won't know for sure what else is going on until I get the HEs off, likely tomorrow night.

My car is a 1990 and I do not have maintenance records prior to my purchase in April 2011. I replaced a handful of seals and the like because it has numerous leaks and I liked the idea of fixing the common ones first and then, if necessary, looking for others. Fortunately, the big leak I have sure appears to be from one of a tiny handful of things that I personally did.

[iamtheari]

The pipe was the culprit. The good news is that I'm getting kind of good at removing and reinstalling heat exchangers. Anyhow, I was able to use a channellock to tighten it (too tight of a space to get much else to it and I do not have a 36mm wrench like I should) and it does not seem to leak anymore.

Now it's just the bumper left to fix (see other thread). Thanks, everyone. Life is good.

[Green993]

Excellent. Great Job!

[iamtheari]

Thanks. I couldn't have done it without the Pelican forums, that's for sure. Prior to your suggestion, my plan was to spend tomorrow re-doing the valve adjustment and hoping for the best.

Now, if I could just figure out the bumper gap so it looks as nice as it (we hope) runs.