Will 993TT Big Reds Frt/rear fit a 91 NB 964 C2?

pantera · 10-19-2013, 05:11 AM

A good friend of mine is selling a set of front/rear Big Reds calipers. I'm strongly thinking about upgrading my DE track car to these. Any ideas as to what I will need to purchase in order to make the conversion?? Frt/rear rotors, adaptor mounts etc...I would like to keep the rear hand brake.

Many thanks in advance,

Dan

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

There are several different way to use the 993 Big Reds on a 964

first, no matter which option you use, you will need 993 n/a rear calipers on your stock or 968M030 rotors in back and you will want to remove the p/v, a 993 m/c and booster is recommended but not absolutely necessary

in front
method 1
use 993 struts and 993tt rotors or 993 Gyro disk 322x32mm rotors and 993 or 993RS wheel carriers, the Big Reds bolt on

method 2
use 964 struts, 964RS/964t wheel carriers and 928GTS 322x32mm rotors or 964RS/964t 322x32mm rotors

method 3
use 964struts, stock 964 wheel carriers caliper adapters from VCI(or similar) and the same rotor choices as method 2

swftiii · 10-19-2013, 07:47 PM

Nothing more to add, Bill is the man. He helped me with this upgrade and I wouldn't change anything.

I went with 928 GTS Front calipers (same as big red except they are black and the bleeder/fluid line have to be reversed) and the 993 rears. There are other details to the install and I can share with you if needed (adapter, PV valve, rotors, master cylinder, booster, etc)

Bill - thanks again for your help last year and the setup is great - it has been a pleasure in the track.

Skip

pantera · 10-20-2013, 07:19 AM

Bill, thanks for your quick reply and input. Method 3 looks to be my best bet. I presently have Moton 964 struts up front, not looking to change out to 993's. Thanks for sharing all the detailed information to the various options. Very hard to do a nice brake upgrade without spending a ton of money. You showed me it certainly can be done. Can't thank you enough!

Skip, appreciate you chiming in and sharing. Anything you can provide me in details would be of great help. You could post it here or I can PM you.

Again, thanks to the both of you for your help,

Dan

swftiii · 05:06 AM

Here is my Setup:

993 C2 Master Cylinder & Booster
Gutted proportioning valve

Front Calipers (928 GTS which are same as TT, but black and cheaper):
928 351 423 03 (928 GTS) (44/36)
928 351 424 03 (928 GTS) (44/36)
Adapter is required – can be purchased from multiple suppliers, but I bought mine from Steve Weiner at RennsportSystems
Have to swap the brake line and the bleeder valves (so the bleeder valves are on the top of the caliper and not the bottom when mounted)

Rear Calipers (993 Standard Rear Calipers – Black in color):
993 352 421 00 (993 stock) (30/34)
993 352 422 00 (993 stock) (30/34)

Brake Rotors (for Big Brakes):
Front L cross drilled: 965 351 045 00
Front R cross drilled: 965 351 046 00
Rear cross drilled: 951 352 041 91 (x2)
Front L solid: 928 351 045 01
Front R solid: 928 351 046 01
Rear solid: 951 352 041 02 (x2)

Street Brake Pads (for Big Brakes):
Front: 993.351.949.00
Rear: 965.352.939.04 -OR- 964 351 939 02

pantera · 10-22-2013, 09:09 PM

Skip, as I mentioned thanks for taking the time to write all this out with the long list of part numbers and descriptions. Huge help in getting me setup!

Sincerely,

Dan

paul284pt · 09:50 AM

Hi,

Bill is certainly the bloke for brakes etc., after his great advice I am very greatful as I'm no techno. Thanks again

Method 3 I believe:

We re-machined the adapter brackets for the fronts, taking about 2.5mm off them, rather than skim the pads. The pads are bloody expensive and would need doing ever time new ones were fitted but once skimmed the brackets were done for life.

As Bill indicated, I didn't bother with the 993 master cylinder and booster and I find my car stops great. So much so that when they were mapping the new 3.8 engine Nick at Redtek remarked he nearly put his mechanic through the windscreen on more than one occasion.

I may upgrade the MC and booster at a later date though as I'm not sure how they will perform when the pads wear a bit. The pads are Pagid yellow's.

Cheers,
Paul

swftiii · 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul284pt

We re-machined the adapter brackets for the fronts, taking about 2.5mm off them, rather than skim the pads. The pads are bloody expensive and would need doing ever time new ones were fitted but once skimmed the brackets were done for life.

Why did you have to skim the adaptors? My brake pads hang over the edge of the rotor by about 1-2mm, so is this what you were addressing?

Thanks,
Skip

paul284pt · 10-28-2013, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Why did you have to skim the adaptors? My brake pads hang over the edge of the rotor by about 1-2mm, so is this what you were addressing?

Hi Skip,

I guess so, I didn't do the work myself and was given the choice of either skimming the pads or the adapter brackets so I chose the latter as a one off. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Cheers,
Paul

pantera · 10:55 AM

Some more questions as I'm starting to put together my brake upgrade kit.

1) I'm going with a 993 C2 master cylinder and brake booster. Are the existing 964 hard lines the correct size for the new 993 master cylinder?

2) I've dealt with a vendor in the past called Coleman Racing that specialize in brake rotors, hats etc. Their rotors are a very good quality and have held up quite well to track duty. Has anyone here used them to make up a slotted front 993TT rotor brake assembly??

3) Are there two types of factory Porsche 993 TT hats. Aluminum and steel in the production line up? My tech has a steel hat on the shelf but I believe I may have seen them in aluminum also?

Many thanks,

Dan

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by pantera

Some more questions as I'm starting to put together my brake upgrade kit.

1) I'm going with a 993 C2 master cylinder and brake booster. Are the existing 964 hard lines the correct size for the new 993 master cylinder?

2) I've dealt with a vendor in the past called Coleman Racing that specialize in brake rotors, hats etc. Their rotors are a very good quality and have held up quite well to track duty. Has anyone here used them to make up a slotted front 993TT rotor brake assembly??

3) Are there two types of factory Porsche 993 TT hats. Aluminum and steel in the production line up? My tech has a steel hat on the shelf but I believe I may have seen them in aluminum also?

Many thanks,

Dan

1) no, look here

2) yes, Coleman can make 322x32 rotor annulus which bolts to stock 993tt steel hats, these will have 993 o/s and need 993 wheel carriers or custom hats if you want 964 o/s rotors and wheel carriers or caliper adapters w/ a custom o/s

3) the only 993 to use aluminum hats was the RSR and GT3evo w/ 380x32mm rotor setup(this was an optional brake package not used on all cars), Girodisk sell floating aluminum hats that use Coleman slotted 322x32 rotors in 993 o/s

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul284pt

Hi Skip,

I guess so, I didn't do the work myself and was given the choice of either skimming the pads or the adapter brackets so I chose the latter as a one off. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Cheers,
Paul

It sounds as if you have caliper adapters w/ 993 os rather than 964 o/s, this causes the caliper to be o/s such that pads may have to be altered to get them to fit. To avoid this w/ 964/28 rotors use the 964RS/t wheel carrier or caliper adapters w/ correct 964 o/s
964 wheel carriers;steel w/ axial brake mounts(brake mounting bolts are in the brake mount)

964t/RS wheel carriers; steel w/ radial brake mounts(brake mounts above the long steering arm)

in the picutes I see 964t/RS 322x32 1 piece front rotors and 964RS(968M030) rear rotors w/ Big red front and hopefully 99 or 964RS rear calipers that have been painted red to match the fronts. 993tt/RS rears calipers and rotors are much larger.

paul284pt · 01:34 PM

Hi,

Since my last post I have decided to go for the rest of the system recommended by Bill (and others) and fit the 993 vacuum booster, 993 master cylinder, mc bracket and gasket to match my recently fitted 964 Turbo front brakes, rotors and adapters & 968 MO30 rear discs and 964 Turbo callipers (as in pics above).

Even though my brakes work very well indeed, it's been in the back of my mind that when the pads become well worn (at around 75% according to Adrian Streather) braking could be lost altogether and while I would normally change pads before the point of no return, one day my son might be driving it around, no contest really.

A final question from me, what about the reservoir, can this stay as stock (964 C2 1990)?

Thanks,
Paul