Track shocks

[ipapilot]

Hey gang,
I've got an 83' euro SC and was given the green light by the spouse to spend a couple grand and decided to focus on the suspension. So, seeing as I would like to hit the club race scene in the next couple years, what can you recommend for shocks. I only want to do this once and would like to 'consider' custom valving from the start. Car currently has Boge's and factory torsion and sways. Plan on purchasing 22/30 tb's in this budget but not installing until later this year because I don't have the time for the install. The motor is about to be put back in, so it would be a great time to hurry and replace the rears. Suggestions on appropriate bushing replacements are appreciated as well, though they have been covered somewhat in other threads. Thanks for input guys!
Brian

[jpachard]

Brian,
If you are considering Club Racing get the rulebook now. It's a .pdf you can download from the PCA website. As far as suspension goes, moost of the fast stock cars( F class) run 22/31 torsion bars with 31front 27rear smart racing sway bars. Monoballs all around and 245 front and 275 rear tires( Hoosiers). This is the desired setup give or take driver preference. Custom valved Bilstiens are a must too. This would give you a very competitive car in the suspension dept.

Cheers, James

[ipapilot]

Thanks James. I've got the rulebook from 2003 already, just about memorized in fact! WRT Bilsteins, where do I go? Do I need to buy them from someone like our host and then have them sent to be revalved or can I buy them new with custom valving? If I have to buy them and send them out, does it matter what I get, Ralley/Sport/HD or whatever? And of course, who is best for the revalving (I'm sure this could be debated), I was thinking SmartRacing but who else is there?
Thanks again,
Brian

[J P Stein]

I just had mine done (revalved) at Bilstein West. I think there is a Bilstein East, also.

Anyhew, 65 bucks per shock.....Smart Racing wants.....more.

Bil West is at 800 537 1085. They can tell you about Bil East...if there is one.

[ChrisBennet]

I would think that the "numbers" for the valving are the important part not the physical process of being able to revalve them. The guys setting up F stock cars (Smart Racing, Rennsport, etc) would know the numbers better than Bilstein.
-Chris

[304065]

Why not adjustables like Moton, JRZ, etc?

I have custom-valved Bilsteins but am thinking of switching to an adjustable one.

[ted]

If you buy your revalved shocks from an after market Porsche race prep shop you will benefit from that shops years of experience with car setup and revalved shocks. When I went to 31/21 torsion bars I had the Bilstein yellow sport shocks. These did not have enough rebound to control the stiffer T-bars.

I got my set of revalved Bilsteins from Mirage International in San Diego. Since then the car has been a blast to drive fast on the track and very competitive in the AM class AX and TT series too.

JRZ are awesome and a couple thousand $$ too.
The revalved shocks at Mirage are very affordable.

Give Jae Lee at Mirage a call at 1 858 581 1101.
http://www.mirageintl.com/
Tell him Mike sent ya.

[ipapilot]

I was thinking the same thing wrt sending them to a race shop with good track history as opposed to Bilstein directly. I would love to entertain the idea of getting an adjustable setup, but I'm under the impression it will blow my budget out of the water. Couple grand for the shock setup alone, and then I still need TBs, SBs, monoballs, and whatever else. If I'm wrong about that, Please tell me!
John, if you go adjustable soon, let me know and maybe I'll take the old Bilsteins off your hands. And Mike, I'll give Jae Lee a call and see what he has for ideas. Does anyone have any preferred contacts at SmartRacing or Rennsport?
Thanks to all of you for your help so far!

[ChrisBennet]

Are the remote valved shocks legal in stock race class?
-Chris

[jpachard]

Originally posted by ChrisBennet
Are the remote valved shocks legal in stock race class?
-Chris

Yes, but usually overkill on a stock class car..

[J P Stein]

Originally posted by ChrisBennet
I would think that the "numbers" for the valving are the important part not the physical process of being able to revalve them. The guys setting up F stock cars (Smart Racing, Rennsport, etc) would know the numbers better than Bilstein.
-Chris

You well may be right.

When I talked to the guy at Bilstein, he asked for spring sizes, weights at the ends, and intended usage. There are more factors involved....unsprung weight per corner, for instance...which I don't know..... and these shops *may*know more about it than Blistein. The price difference is considerable......is their experience
worth 45 bucks more per shock?.....and could I tell the difference?

Since the answer to the 2nd question is no, the answer to the 1st becomes clear.

Since I ain't smart enough to do one mod at a time, I may never know the how much good it did.

SCCA alows remote double adjustable shox in the stock AX classes.
I know of a couple guys that have dropped 2500 (single adj.)to 4500 bucks on Penskes.....and suspect a few more who won't expose their suspenders.

[ipapilot]

Well, from what I can see so far, I may just go with a full setup from somebody like smart racing. The only downside would be that if I ever get to the point of being a really good driver, I may decide I want a set of single adjustable shocks. In that case, I certainly think I could find someone to buy my custom valved Bilsteins for a respectable price.
Thanks for the help so far, and feel free to chime in if you have any more recommendations.
Brian

[David]

My experience is in autox not road racing, but I'm wondering, can remote reservior multiple adjustable shocks ever be overkill if the rules allow it? You hardly see a competitive street prepared car without them at the national level. I would think besides tires and driving skill, they are the most important component to have.
I'm surprised by all the people in SCCA Emod that spend huge amounts on engines and aren't willing to spend a few thousand on shocks.

EDIT: just to clarify, I autox a car but I do roadrace the kart.

[jpachard]

Properly valved Bilstiens will be 98% as good as a fully adjustable shock( If they are done by a reputable shop who knows 911's). Spending the time to dial in fully adjustable shocks takes alot of track time.

Cheers, James

[ttweed]

Originally posted by 125shifter
My experience is in autox not road racing, but I'm wondering, can remote reservior multiple adjustable shocks ever be overkill if the rules allow it? You hardly see a competitive street prepared car without them at the national level. I would think besides tires and driving skill, they are the most important component to have.
I'm surprised by all the people in SCCA Emod that spend huge amounts on engines and aren't willing to spend a few thousand on shocks.

David-
There is a simple explanation for this. In all the stock classes you are not allowed to change spring rates in Solo2. People are using the adjustable shocks with heavy compression settings to stiffen up the suspension on their cars, essentially, making up for what the spring should be doing.

On a Prepared or Mod car, you can put really heavy springs on and let them do most of the work, for $50 each! Then a $150 single adjustable shock will work fine, just to dampen the springs, until you are such an accomplished driver that you are getting everything out of the car. Then maybe the $2K triple adjustable shocks make some sense, for the pros, but not for me at this point! I'd just get confused trying to adjust them instead of paying attention to my driving and just getting the car fairly well balanced.

Those remote reservoirs sure look cool, though.

TT

[jluetjen]

Having adjustable shocks can be very helpful when tuning to a specific track. Either because of the change in roughness (high speed adjustment) or the track layout (low speed adjustment). One auto-X "for example" might be a track with on or more very tight hairpins versus a track with a lot of slaloms. The former may reward stiffer rebound in the rear to help turn-in while the later may reward a softer setting for syncronising the flow of the oscelations around the cones. Since I don't think that you usually know the course in Auto-X before you arrive, having the ability to tune the shocks could be a big advantage at the top level. For the novice on the other hand it would be just one more thing to get wrong.

[Tim Stevens]

Brian,

Let me know what you decide on. I am looking to do suspension work in the future. Talk to you soon - Tim

[J P Stein]

I havn't had the chance to AX the car as yet, but I think I'm gonna like it.

The combination of needle bearings at all 4 corners (offed the plastic bushings) and the revalved shocks, now the tires stay glued to the road.....and I live on a bumpy one.....no more squeaks, either. I wouldn't say the ride is plush....but the springs no longer over power the shocks.

The new A3S04s are at the tire shop.....I'm damn near ready for next weekends SCCA opener....yehaw!