Ever rented a racecar?

[cstreit]

Gang,

Have you ever rented out your race car?

Have you ever rented someone elses car?

If yes to either, I could use your thoughts.

I'm nearly done with the black car, in front of mine, pictured below and it will be coming up for sale shortly. I'm thinking of renting it out.

1) What is an average weekend DE price?
2) Any ideas on how to secure the "You break it, you bought it" clause in a contract?
3) What was your experience like?

Thanks!

[dd74]

Chris: I've never rented. But as a thought, you might look up some Spec Miata sites. The cars are rented out on a frequent basis. I think per race or seasonally.

[Series900]

DE will be cheaper than race, obvious reasons. I have customers that rent SM's, radicals. And when damage results, the renter pays me direct.
Hint, if you want to rent a radical, tell em your seriously interested in purchase, low to no rent. However, after you drive the radical, everything else is slow, and you will want to buy.

[jluetjen]

Chris;
I've rented some race cars (SCCA) in the past and have made the following observations.

1) Legal stuff -- AKA: Contract
a) Sure, ideally it's a gentlemen's agreement, but make sure that the customer understands the details by having them signing a rental contract that clearly specifies the liabilities.
b) The liabilities work out like this from your perspective: Heads I win -- tails you lose. If anything goes wrong the customer pays. If the customer gets hurt it's the customers fault. You have no liability for anything whatshowever.
c) "Racing is a dangerous sport. Participants can gete injured, maimed or even killed. etc.etc. etc" None of this is your fault nor do you take any responsiblity if it happens.
d) In spite of points a-c above, always try to make good on ensuring a positive experience for the customer. Sure -- everyone says that, but few do it. If something breaks (and it was your fault), don't stick it to the customer even though the contract says that they are liable. You seem like a fair guy so I don't think that this will be a problem.
2) Pricing -- Target maybe 1/10th of the purchase price of the vehicle as a ball-park rental charge. Keep in mind that it includes all of the consumables (brake pads, oil, a portion of the rebuild costs, seat belt usage, etc) in addition to the cost of the vehicle. Also don't forget the fuel unless you have the customer pay for that out of their own pocket.
3) Experience -- A real differentiator will be to make it the "realization of a dream to drive a real Porsche race car" for your the customers. I've rented an ITC Chevette (hey! Don't laugh!!!) which was dog slow. But it was fun because the owners made me feel like a star driver. The other thing was the car was reliable and handled and braked well. (Unfortunately the valves floated at around 5000 RPM which acted as a rev limiter.) Compare that with a Spec Racer rental I had where the car was competitive but handled like a pig with massive corner entry understeer. I asked the mechanic about it and what sort of set-up he had on the car and his response was "Go ahead -- look for yourself". I've never been inclinded to race a SR's since then even though I had a good finish and got a placque.

I've got some copies of contracts filed away. I'll see if I can dig them up for you.

BTW - The black car is a good looking product. What's the spec on it?

[cstreit]

John,

Thanks for the contracts you e-mailed.

The car is a 1970 "S" Chassis. It belonged to a friend who got out of the business and racing. It had been scraped on a wall once. I replaced the rear a-arm, rebuilt the suspension, rebuilt the motor due to poor assembly.

Weighs in about 2250#
ATL Fuel cell
Tilton dual M/C with Turbo brakes all around
Fiberglass fenders, hood, tail, bumpers
Koni adjustable shocks, large anti-roll bars, 23/31mm T-bars. Adjustable spring plates.

3.2L SS motor.
- 76 3.0L case,
- 2.7L crank, Max Moritz
- Raceware rod bolts
- Patrick MS lightened flywheel with 4 puck clutch.
- 98mm pistons
- twin plugged,
- ported heads
- 46mm webers
- GE60 cam
- Titanum Retainers
- EBS valve springs
- Electromotive crank fire

...etc...

[jakermc]

John -

Please e-mail me the contracts as well. I have been putting together plans to do the same thing. I am building a townhouse trackside at MotorSport Ranch in the DFW area and plan on offering combo house/car rental packages. E-mail addy is rmcohen@sbcglobal.net

Thanks!

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by cstreit
Gang,

Have you ever rented out your race car?

Have you ever rented someone elses car?

If yes to either, I could use your thoughts.

I'm nearly done with the black car, in front of mine, pictured below and it will be coming up for sale shortly. I'm thinking of renting it out.

1) What is an average weekend DE price?
2) Any ideas on how to secure the "You break it, you bought it" clause in a contract?
3) What was your experience like?

Thanks!

I love the black one - Got any other pictures of it? (specs would be nice too)

[bigrubberjeep]

I would suggest you "LOWER" the rev limit on your car if possible before renting. (The customer doesnt have to know you did it) but it may save your motor from too much wear.

[esther]

Originally posted by bigrubberjeep
(specs would be nice too)

Originally posted by cstreit

The car is a 1970 "S" Chassis. It belonged to a friend who got out of the business and racing. It had been scraped on a wall once. I replaced the rear a-arm, rebuilt the suspension, rebuilt the motor due to poor assembly.

Weighs in about 2250#
ATL Fuel cell
Tilton dual M/C with Turbo brakes all around
Fiberglass fenders, hood, tail, bumpers
Koni adjustable shocks, large anti-roll bars, 23/31mm T-bars. Adjustable spring plates.

3.2L SS motor.
- 76 3.0L case,
- 2.7L crank, Max Moritz
- Raceware rod bolts
- Patrick MS lightened flywheel with 4 puck clutch.
- 98mm pistons
- twin plugged,
- ported heads
- 46mm webers
- GE60 cam
- Titanum Retainers
- EBS valve springs
- Electromotive crank fire

...etc...

[cstreit]

That's the ticket.

It's got crankfire so I can control the rev-limit. It's also got a telltale tach, and the reset will be not available to the driver, just in case. I'm thinking about adding a data aquisition system if it's rented, just in case....

[aigel]

That's what I was thinking. Mishshifts! Steer clear of any grey area by recording peak rpm or even entire days / run sessions, if you can.

George

[jluetjen]

If you've got data acquisition in the car, then access to the data should bring the rental price up, or at a minimum should be a key selling point in differentiating yourself from everyone else who's renting out cars.

- John

[cstreit]

John,

True as well. If I'm instructing or providing support, price will go up. If I do decide to rent it, the DA is a must as far as I'm concerned...

Helps the driver and protects BOTH parties...

[Zeke]

I'd pay $500/day. I don't think who buys the gas is too important. If you want to know what's in the tank, you put it there. But, you'd have to figure for 20 gallons. At the OTR days, we get about 2+ hrs. of realistic track time. At decent track times, you can get 15-18 laps in on the 2.5 mi. track each 30 min. session. At 10 mpg and $4/gal, that's approx $72. At 2.50/gal, it's $45. This is all prox, don't back my math out. Close enough.

[cstreit]

Zeke, That's what Miata's go for around here! You're right about the gas though, better to know...

[Chuck Moreland]

I've no direct experience here, but seems to me a straight "you break it you bought it" could be problematic. What happens when the car is balled up and totalled? The renter has to come up with $40-$60k?

That's a tough pill for the renter, and maybe you too. Signing the contract is one thing, collecting after the event is another. You might get burned, or tied up in legal battle, or both.

I would think about taking out a policy to cover the damage, with a sizable deductable - perhaps $5k. The renter is liable for damage to the extent of the deductable and you collect it up front as a fully refundable deposit.

That caps the renter's liability to a reasonable level, yet gives incentive to drive responsibly. You too are covered because collecting on the insurance should be easier than from the renter. Plus you've got the deposit up front.

[jluetjen]

That's a tough pill for the renter, and maybe you too. Signing the contract is one thing, collecting after the event is another.

My experience was with rentals for SCCA Regional events. So we're talking wheel to wheel in a realm where many PCA guys fear to tread. That's how it was done for me (not to mention they had my credit card number and there was a $5000 security deposit placed on my card). In one case I did crash a older S2000 (Crossle BTW, not Honda). I had to pay for a corner's worth of shock, A-Arms and miscellaneous HW. It took a few weeks to write the check and they were good to work with. At the end of the day I still seem them when I stop in at an SCCA event and we share a laugh about event. Especially since earlier in the day I did a 360 in front of the owner at speed on the front straight of NHIS and drove out of it.

I guess the point here is that racing is a small community -- if the person renting balls up my car and defaults on the payments it's doubtful that they'd ever get a ride from anyone again. I would agree though that some sort of security deposit should be paid up front.

[cstreit]

Both good ideas. Chuck, I wonder if the cost of insurance wouldn't eat up most, if not all, of the renters fees.

[Jack Olsen]

My gut reaction is that race car rental only makes sense with relatively disposable cars. $4-500 a day for a Miata is not a crazy amount of money, for newbie enthusiasts, and it's hard to do too much damage in/with/to a Miata. Anyone with a reasonable amount of track experience should be able to drive the car at what feels like 9/10 all day and still not be in a dangerous place.

A well-set-up 911, on the other hand, is going to cost more to operate, cost more to repair, and have a potentially much more dangerous character out on the track for a not-so-experienced driver. Remember, these are rear-engine cars with a tendency to get tail happy. Somebody looking for the '911 experience' could rent one of these for the day and get much more than he bargained for.

Out here, you can rent a new-generation Viper for $900, but you've got to pretty much sign over the deed for your house in order to get it out the door, liability-wise. I'd think you'd have to price a daily 911 rental in the $600-700 range, to be reasonable, and it's hard for me to imagine the income from that being worth the risks.

But then, I've got no first-hand experience with this sort of thing. I always drive my own car.

[jakermc]

The rental income is interesting, but not nearly as interesting as the maintenance and upkeep becoming a tax deductible expense