Hagerty insurance good for AutoX or DE?

[wahoofan]

My neighbor swears that his 944T is covered by Hagerty for PCA track events, but I'm concerned about my new policy for my '72 911T. One of the papers in my packet is titled "Racing Exclusion Endorsement" and states specifically:

"There is no coverage under this policy while 'your covered auto' is: 2. Being used at a: a. racing facility; or b: facility or roadway temporarily designated for speed, time, racing, or performance driving events. This includes but is not limited to the use of 'your covered auto' at a performance driving school, an above legal speed rally, or a closed road rally."

Does this mean I'm screwed for AutoX this summer? It certainly seems that DE would be out of the question. How about some advice from the other Hagerty customers here?

[sweet97m3]

The only company I know that covers DE events is American Collectors Insurance, Inc.

http://www.americancollectorsins.com

I would check the site out for yourself, lots of good info.

They don't currently cover all states and I am a policyholder but live in Virginia - and they don't offer it here yet. Their website explains it pretty well. They charge a percentage (1.5) of the vehicle's value ($25,000 = $375) - on top of your annual premium. The good news is that it covers an many events the year as you like to run in - it is not per event.

More info...

The consumer info states:

Qualifications

Your vehicle may qualify for Driver’s Ed insurance if it is:

A Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Viper or similar performance vehicle
Stored in a locked garage or trailer when not in use
Not driven by anyone with less than 10 years driving experience during a Driver’s Ed event
Currently insured for liability with another company

The program is currently available in the following states:

California
Connecticut
Florida
Georgia
Illinois
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
North Carolina
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Washington
Wisconsin


The agent pages state:

Coverage Overview
Current availability: CA, CT, FL, GA, IL, MD, MI, MN, NC, OH, PA, WA & WI.

“Driver's Education” is a safe driving program designed to help high performance sports car enthusiasts become better, safer, more consistent drivers, both on the track and off. National clubs such as the Porsche Club of America and the BMW Car Club of America regularly sponsor Driver’s Ed events at tracks across the country.

If any of your clients participate in Driver’s Ed, you’ll want to tell them about American Collectors’ Driver’s Education Auto Physical Damage program. The policy can help insulate your client’s family auto policy from problems and/or potential rate increases resulting from on-track loss or damage. It pays for:

Damage arising from Driver’s Ed events
- Standard auto policies may not cover on-track activity

Replacement parts of like kind & quality
- Standard auto policies pay for a part’s functional equivalent

The cost of using “expert” repair shops
- Standard auto policies pay usual & customary labor rates

Covered claims are paid on an Agreed Amount basis in the event of total loss
- Standard auto policies typically pay ACV

Storage & transit covered at no additional cost

All vehicles losses are subject to a deductible of 20% of the agreed value while participating in the Driver’s Education event itself. Insured vehicles and trailers are subject to a deductible of $1000 per loss while (a) in transit to & from a Driver’s Education event, (b) in storage, and (c) located on the event premises before or after an event.

Note: The policy offers physical damage coverage only; liability coverage is not available.

[wahoofan]

That looks like the ticket for DEs - but $300 in addition to my $200 to Hagerty seems steep.
What about AutoX.....would I be OK with my Hagerty?

[sweet97m3]

The way I read things any timed event could be interpreted as a "race'. With an autocross being the only car out there at any one time...makes for lots less risk I would think. Then again that might depend on the course and what one might encounter if you go off course even a tad. Then again it could just be a "parking lot mishap"? Not entirely untrue right?

As for the $300 in DE coverage, it would likely seem a real bargain if anything were to happen! Certainly something to think about. I'm not willing to go there this year even if they offer coverage in Virginia. Maybe next year if I start doings DEs.

[Zeke]

To keep my "other" policy, I have to maintain that I don't ever participate in any speed events (long defintiton, you know what they are meanig).

So, if I buy an American Collectors DE policy (which seems like a hell of a good idea), I think I runt he risk of losing my primary insurance. Will AC write a whole policy?

[sweet97m3]

I have my primary coverage with them, although it is a collector's policy and I am limited to 2,500 miles a year. My understanding of their DE coverage is that your (or any other) insurance company would not be involved at all if the damage were to occur at the DE event site or on the track.

Kind of scary I know, with a $20,000+ car if I do this I will go through American Collectors for both if I go down the DE path.

Steve

[wahoofan]

Sooooo........Let me see if I've got this straight. For AutoX I'm probably OK with Hagerty, just try not to hit anything bigger than an orange cone
For DE, I would probably be best off buying the policy from Am. Coll. for maybe a $10000 agreed value, just to be safe.
Does this sound like a plan? Will Hagerty find out if I purchase a DE policy from Am. Coll. and drop me?

[sweet97m3]

That is what I'm thinking. It doesn't sound as if American Collectors cares if you have a day-to-day policy on the car elsewhere. I suppose, like other insurance companies, they only begin to care if you don't pay your premiums, amass moving violations, or ever try to file a claim. The ADE coverage is pretty specific though so I don't think much would fall into a gray area between the two.

Not sure how Hagerty's would ever know about a DE policy until after you filed a claim with American Collectors and it was on record. Then again if the claim wasn't against them would they care at all? Only if the car was diminished in value? I don't know. If you are on the road in normal driving conditions and something happens, why would American Collectors care if Hagerty's handled that?

Somebody out there must have already split this atom! Could it possibly be this straight-forward?

[ajackson]

Would a DE/TT claim even show up "on record"? Do you have to report race track accidents to the DMV?

[nostatic]

Hagerty's application asks if you do any competitive stuff with the car (including practice for racing). How did you guys answer that one?

[sweet97m3]

I believe that just about any insurance claim shows up within insurance industry records. Is it okay to assume that DMV records wouldn't reflect a DE type incident because no traffic offense has taken place and it is not a public road? I don't think there is a DMV concern there unless you are at fault in an accident on public roads and assessed a violation as a result of that accident.

In my limited experience anything less than a "No" re: the competitive use of the vehcile will get you turned down from Hagerty's and others that don't/won't cover such events.

[SandyI]

When I went to insure my 914/6 which is going to be my track car and canyon carver, I figured I'd give Hagerty a shot. I knew they'd never cover me on the track, but it would be cheap coverage for the trips to Willow and for the misc around town and canyon carving.

Without mentioning anything about the track or the canyon carving, I told the agent I would be driving the car to work three or four times a month. He instantly turned me down, said that more than once a month in normal daily traffic was too much for Hagerty. What a joke.

With Hagerty, you're not covered for any type of DE event, or driving to the event either.

[fredmeister]

Just spoke to American Collectors to renew my policy and this is THE LAST YEAR THEY WILL OFFER de COVERAGE. IT ALL ENDS IN 2008.
So, once they stop covering for DE is there any other companies out there that will offer DE coverage for our cars?

[LeeH]

Originally posted by nostatic
Hagerty's application asks if you do any competitive stuff with the car (including practice for racing). How did you guys answer that one?

I answered "yes" and promptly received a phone call from a friendly Hagerty rep making sure I understood that the car is not covered during autocross or DE.

[michael lang]

Sandy its not a joke, it's just that Hagerty, American Collectors, Leland West, etc... they're collector car insurance, which to them means the cars/motorcycles or whatever are basically garage queens, which is why so much emphasis is put on the section of the application which covers "storage". If you or I are putting 8-10K a year on our cars, then we need regular insurance. I answered "yes" to Hagerty as well, & I got the same phone call that Lee got. It's no big deal they're just doing a little "CYA".

[Dantilla]

Typically, one of the clauses specifically excluded "timed events", which means you're not covered when autocrossing. The site here is very friendly with lots of grass run-off room, so I'm not nearly as concerned with insurance for those few minutes compared to driving on public roads to the autocross site.

That's also why timing is prohibited at DE days.

[racer]

Folks around here use LaurelDE. Not sure if they are national or not. Their only package is "30 de days". Pretty high deductibles (ie, $5-10K!). But no one has had a problem collecting on a claim.

DEs are being shut out by the insurance agency. Apparantly, too many 20 year olds in Evos and WRXs screwing up ... Seriously though.. 10-20 years ago, DE was confined to German car clubs, Vettes, SCCA. Now, everyone seems to be jumping in. As a result, more claims.. As a result, more companies catching on.


The best thing is to READ ALL POLICY EXCLUSIONS to make sure you are or are not covered.

Self insurance may be the best policy - Hello cheap 944!

AX IS technically racing.. It is a TIMED, SPEED EVENT. If that isn't racing, i don't know what is. Now. it is very possible you will NEVER hurt your car at an AX. On the other hand, i have seen cars jump over curbs and tear out their bottoms/wheels/engine mounts etc.

[itsa914]

I have haggerty for the past 4 yrs and I AX my 914 any chance I get. You are covered driving to the events, in the parking lot and everyplace EXCEPT for when you are on the course. I have a agreed value policy of 10K and a mile limit of 3500 miles a year. That more than covers the all my mileage driving to events.

If you plan to drive to work then you need to look for someone else to insure your car with.