Tracking 86 or newer Carrera w stock susp?

911st · 06-16-2008, 07:15 AM

Anyone have experience w tracking a 1986 or newer Carrera w stock suspension and new shocks?

The sway bars and rear torsion bar were stiffer starting in 86.

How is this set up on the track w sticky but not full R tires?

If you latter changed to a 22/29 or similar w stock sways it be especally great to hear you comments.

My reason is I can run w a mostly stock group and not be at a disadvantage.

I can step up the the next group by adding hard bushings and 22/29 but most others may have bigger suspension set ups w all the goodies. I still want to be able to street my car co I will not go full out. This may put me at a bit of a competitive disadvantage but could be worth it to experance better car control.

Would this put me at a disadvantage against the radical 23/30+ set ups w big sway bars?

Opinions are appreciated.

sbarton · 06-16-2008, 07:50 AM

What group and class are you running? Read the rules carefully. In one of the classes I was considering running in, it added points for non-OEM torsion bars. Therefore upgrading to stock turbo torsion bars (a popular upgrade) would not give me points. At least that is the way I interpreted the rules as they were written.

-Scott

911st · 06-16-2008, 08:41 AM

Yes, I actually have an 85 but have parts for 86 specs which is ok.

A turbo's 26mm torsion bars would be nice but would put me up a class.

jester911 · jester911's Garage

I drove my car with original stock suspension and new shocks about 20 track days or so.
I ended up going to 22/30 Tbars and polybronze bushings. I also went to Rcomp tire lowered the car and cornerbalanced it.

The difference was huge. If you are anything like me you will only be able to stay with the stock setup for so long and you will be wanting more.

911st · 06-16-2008, 10:34 AM

Helpfull, thanks.

Do you still street your car?

pgeorgeson · 06-16-2008, 03:17 PM

I started auto-crossing and then tracking my '86 coupe completely stock. My first suspension change was to have it lowered and corner-balanced. That made a big difference, but I was still pretty loose and bouncy with a lot of body roll. I then moved to 23/31 torsion bars. They made a big difference. I haven't taken a huge amount of time off the lap times with the new torsion bars, but it is definitely easier to drive at speed and the limits are higher in the corners.

My car is street legal, although I have a roll bar, race seats, harnesses, etc. It is not a daily driver, and would probably get pretty tiresome as it is now if I had to drive it every day. It is pretty stiff around town with the upgraded torsion bars.

My next step for the suspension will be adjustable sway bars, but I haven't gotten there yet. I also need new shocks, so I am looking into that.

earlyapex · 06-16-2008, 03:31 PM

The best place to find a group of stockish 911's is in GGR. You will do just fine and can see how different modifications change a car's performance by driving in some of the instructors' cars.

911st · 06-16-2008, 08:24 PM

Eric,

That is the plan.

Thx

earlyapex · 06-16-2008, 11:00 PM

I'll see you at their next event. I will be at Thunderhill this weekend with NCRC. Drop by if you have some time to kill.

911st · 06-17-2008, 06:34 AM

Eric,

Wish I could, sister has a big birthday.

Keith

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911st

My reason is I can run w a mostly stock group and not be at a disadvantage.

This may put me at a bit of a competitive disadvantage but could be worth it to experance better car control.

Would this put me at a disadvantage against the radical 23/30+ set ups w big sway bars?

When you say "competitive" and "disadvantage", what exactly are you referring to? It sounds like you want to be HPDE champion.

Who do you run with? In what way are you competing?

Tom

ZOA NOM · ZOA NOM's Garage

You should check out the Spec 911 class in PRC. It sounds like what you're looking for, and it's growing by leaps and bounds. Our next race weekend is June 28-29 at Infineon. Stop by if you have a chance.

See my sig for the website.

911st · 06-17-2008, 09:24 AM

I think the Spec 911 class is wonderfull!

I have come to watch a couple of times.

Maybe someday.

Flyer88 · 06-17-2008, 05:04 PM

About 3 years ago I went to Koni adjustables lowered the car and started using RA-1s on 7&8x16 Fuchs. THe car was much better but still had roll. This past winter I added 22/29 torsion bars, polybronze bushings/bearings and adjustable front camber plates. I have only done one DE this year at Mid-Ohio but the car was awesome and by Sunday I was getting used to it - can't wait for the next DE. As far as street goes it is firmer but not uncomfortable, in fact it is much more predictable which I like (the Konis are still on firm from mid May). Haven't done the sway bars and may not on this car - would really like to get a track only car and but the stock seats back in - the pole positions and roll bar do make it a little uncomfortable for the street, especially on days when I am in and out a lot.

911st · 06-18-2008, 06:35 AM

This is all helpfull, thank you.

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Who do you run with? In what way are you competing?

KTL · 06-18-2008, 07:47 AM

A friend runs his '87 in basically stock form suspension-wise, with the new shocks (Bilstein HD I believe) and a Weltmeister adj. 22mm rear sway bar on R compound tires. He's quite fast. Car has a good amount of body roll, as evidenced by his head sticking out of the window as he leans into turns.

Lifts the front wheels a lot too.

I've only run my car on 22/29 t-bars and I have not driven others' stock cars on the track in order to be able to compare the driving difference. Body roll is surprisingly the same between my car with the 22/29 and the 19/24 or 25 in friends' cars. See pics: Silver car is the stock main springs, red car (mine) is the 22/29 mains. Not much difference, is there?

My car feels tight and planted, whereas I remember it being a bit sloppier with the stock main springs. But the body roll is still there. Point being, there's not much gained in arresting body roll with the 22/29 mains. You need to add stiffer sways to arrest the roll.

KTL · 06-18-2008, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emcon5

It sounds like you want to be HPDE champion.

Tom

We in our local region of dummies joke about that all the time. We tweak and "upgrade" our cars, for what reason?

TO WIN THE DE.

LOL

911st · 06-18-2008, 09:03 AM

Kevin,

The pics are great and extremely helpful!

I remember my first ride w an instructor in an old worn out stock w old shocks 74 w just R1's. Man that guy was smooth and fast.

No one likes to be embarrassed or last. The group the I am interested in dose keep score. At the end of the weekend DE they have a formal "time trial" and post the scores on the club web site and they stay there for years. One sure feels better being close to the top than at the bottom.

Also, adding mods takes me out of the class that has the most Carrera's. It is human nature to want to be with one's own type.

However, I do like the idea of just setting it up how I want and just go for the "driving experience". A little to much of a touchy feely approach for me though.

Also, agreeing to stay in a class keeps me from overdoing the mods which is what I tend to do.

Thx

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911st

No one likes to be embarrassed or last. The group the I am interested in dose keep score. At the end of the weekend DE they have a formal "time trial" and post the scores on the club web site and they stay there for years. One sure feels better being close to the top than at the bottom.

And that club would be...........?