Weight Reduction and Autocross

dehsoftware · 11-16-2009, 11:11 PM

I have a 1983 Porsche 944 and am thinking of doing some Autocross events and I also want to do some weight reduction. Does anybody know what type of weight reduction is allowed in PCA events (I just joined the PCA, so I don't know what is allowed yet)?

I got interested in weight reduction after plugging some weight reduction estimates into a weight reduction 0-60 calculator that I found (the calculator can be found at The Porsche Guys Blog » Weight Reduction 0-60 Calculator) and thought it would be cool to get to 60 faster, but want to make sure I can still do autocross and live with the car.

CRNT918 · 11-17-2009, 02:12 AM

You'll need to read the Parade Competion Rules and decide what class you want to run in. Weight reduction is allowed only in the Improved and Modified classes.
I would just take the car and go the way it is. Even in it's stock form, you'll have a great time.
After you get the hang of it, then start modifying the car.
Parade Competion Rules can be found on the PCA website in the Library section.

krystar · 11-17-2009, 04:44 AM

in all forms of auto racing, the #1 thing that can be improved is the thing that's between the steering wheel and the seat.

the more seat time u get, the fast u'll be. go out there and just show up and say "i've never done this before" and one of the organizers will get an instructor to show you around. PCA, SCCA, all the other autox organizations are really friendly about newbies.

berettafan · 05:54 AM

You might attend a few events and see how serious they are about classing. The region i go with is pretty lax. Definitely wouldn't build/alter a car to PCA rules myself as even our largest 'class' has maybe 5 cars in it per outing. I might think differently if our group was 100+ cars per event.

If anything you might look to SCCA classing and rules for guidance.

Aslet · 11-17-2009, 06:21 AM

Overall I agree that you might want to check out some events before doing too much work on the car. That said, it is winter time and I'm sure you want to get the car ready. The official PCR rules are very strict, to say the least. In the production class (stock), you can't really take out any weight. You can change seats and a few other items, but you are suppose to add ballast if that reduces the weight under stock. In improved you are allowed to take out a few pound (I don't recall what the car has to weight, but you can only take out a small amount). This weight reduction is allowed through items like lighter race seats, light battery, and a few other lighter weight items. To really reduce weight you would need to strip the interior. This automatically places you in modified. You will be able to take out as much weight as you want, but you will be driving against other stripped out cars with major mods done to them. So unless you want to spend $30k on the car to make a killer engine and suspension, you will never be as fast.

The best way to go would be to add race seats, harnesses, and a harness bar. This will keep you in production and you will be able to control the car better, since you will be held in. After this you open the famous endless pit that is racing! If you maximize you car for the production class, you will be amazed at what it can do.

You can read the full rules here: There is a link for the rules near the bottom of the page. You will have to sign in to see them...

Parade - Our Annual Gathering

Also add where you are located, maybe someone from you region can add better first hand experience.

HarryD · 11-17-2009, 09:34 AM

In reality, for you, the weight reductions (or any othe mods) will not pay meaningful dividends at this time.

The best bang for you buck is to get seat time. After you do a few runs, have one of the fast guys drive your car and see how much time you left on the table. I can almost guarantee you that that improvement will be much greater than what you can achieve by mods to your car.

FWIW-I was watching Truth in 24 and they showed the Race Engineer running the pit crew ragged to minmize the time the car spent in the pits for fuel, tires etc. He was asked why he focused so much on this. He said that the cost to reduce the time in the pits by seconds is orders of magnitude less expensive than mods to the car to gain a few 10'ths per lap.

SandyI · 11-17-2009, 01:17 PM

It's all about seat time and a great instructor on your first day out.

racer · 11-17-2009, 06:25 PM

1) check the rulebook.
2) In SCCA you will be bumped out of stock (E stock) and well, then the sky is the limit.
3) PCA regions vary and the rules/classes they use vary as well.

That said, welcome to the club! C'mon in.. do some searches and ask your questions!

dehsoftware · 11-17-2009, 06:41 PM

Thanks for the suggestion of more seat time. I'll definitely do that before making any mods.

I was thinking of doing a PCA Driver Education Session before staring autocross, would this help or should I just start doing some autocross.

racer · 11-17-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dehsoftware

Thanks for the suggestion of more seat time. I'll definitely do that before making any mods.

I was thinking of doing a PCA Driver Education Session before staring autocross, would this help or should I just start doing some autocross.

Do them both! While my local region has some requirements before doing a DE, most regions do not. Again, check the website for your region or the one you want to run with and see what they need from you (besides some $$

)

Both will help you learn to drive better.

krystar · 11-17-2009, 08:40 PM

autocross is cheaper and easier to get into.

however, make sure your car is up to the task first. make sure your brake pads are adequate and you've flushed and bled your brake fluid. you're going to be driving the car harder than you have on the street. make sure it can handle it.

HarryD · 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dehsoftware

Thanks for the suggestion of more seat time. I'll definitely do that before making any mods.

I was thinking of doing a PCA Driver Education Session before staring autocross, would this help or should I just start doing some autocross.

Frankly, I would suggest a few Autocrosses before you go to Drivers Ed. The car control skills you learn at Autocross will serve you well.

At Autocross, you can drive at 9/10ths, 10/10ths and even 11/10ths and while you will lose control, other than some crushed cones and a wild few monments, the most likely outcome will be no damage to you or your car but you will gain expeerience on how your car behaves as it approached it's limits and what corrective actions may actually help and which ones make a bad situation worse. You cannot practice this at DE.

Autocross is all about car control at the limit and living to tell about it. At DE, when you find the limits, due to the higher speeds, you may also find the wall.

This is ok at Autocross:

but could have a very bad result at DE.

This is the in car video of that run: