cayenne VS. Toreg

[Mr9146]

Nameplates further divide the categories.

This increased division separates Lexus from Toyota, Infinity from Nissan, Rover from BMW thus making it look like the parent companies suck less than they actually do. BUT, it also shows that people who purchase Infinity, Lexus, et. all really are getting a better car.

But, no matter what, it all boils down to the fact that Nissan IS Infinity and Toyota IS Lexus. SO, when one fails, they both fail. Therefore, Porsche - being a single company with no parent company - is still at the top of its class.

[arrivederci]

when one fails, they both fail

Mr9146 - wrong. You've contradicted yourself! The nameplates break out the brand not by parent company, but by actual brand that you purchase. So they show that a Lexus branded vehicle is generally higher quality than the parent company, Toyota (which you said). So how can you then go on and say that Lexus = Toyota, so judge a Lexus as a Toyota and Porsche is #1? The numbers, as you pointed out, state the opposite. Lexus is better than the Toyota brand, Infinity is better than the Nissan brand, and Buick is better than the average of the GM owned brands. In fact, Buick is better than the Porsche brand.

Again, to better clarify nameplate vs corporate ranking, the nameplate differentiates Jaguar from Ford. In the corporate ranking, GM the average of Buick + Saab + Chevy + Cadillac + Saturn + etc etc. Its a pretty wide spectrum, and one can't judge all brands by the corporate average. Porsche only has one brand, therefore they remain the same regardless of how you slice it.

So, Porsche's two models are better in quality than the many models that GM produces (on average), but Buick's from 2000 had fewer problems after 3 years than Porsches from 2000 did.

Hope this helps...

[Mr9146]

You missed what I said: "BUT, it also shows that people who purchase Infinity, Lexus, et. all really are getting a better car."

That does not mean that Lexus is not to be judged as a Toyota. When I said that, "... when one fails they both fail," I was simply saying that because they are the same company, they must be judged as such. I make this statement based on the fact the cars share more than 90% of their parts ... this ultra-close similarity is not enough to differentiate between the two.

Just as parents are responsible for their childrens' actions, so are the major manufacturers responsible for their subsidiaries virtues and faults ... whatever the case may be.

Porsche's (good) decision not to diversify or sell-out should not be held against them on nameplate rankings which, in my opinion, only serve to make the high $$$ offerings of Nissan, Toyota, et. all look better than the rest of their bloodline. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[old_skul]

Jeebus. It's spelled "Touareg".

[mb911]

mikez,

I did a little research and you are correct. there is family portions of stock and public but the family is decision makers

Ben
77 911 3.0
75 914-6 2.7

[Joe Bob]

Woooohooo.....what did I win?

[arrivederci]

I understand your point Mr9146, but still think that you're talking yourself in circles.

1)

people who purchase Infinity, Lexus, et. all really are getting a better car

2)

I was simply saying that because they are the same company, they must be judged as such.

3)

the high $$$ offerings of Nissan, Toyota, et. all look better than the rest of their bloodline. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

So are they really better cars, or not? The statistics show Lexus and Infiniti being better than Toyota and Nissan -- regardless of where the parts come from. Infiniti is pretty significantly better than Nissan based on the JD Power survey in question. So they truly ARE building a better car. How can you judge them all the same?

Is a Cadillac really a better car than a Pontiac...they're all OWNED by GM and they may share a significant # of parts? How could this happen...Cadillac scored higher than Pontiac? Must be a fluke... And if you were to do so...say avoiding Cadillac because they're related to Pontiac (who scores below average)...you wouldn't be making a smart consumer decision. But that's your choice.

[Mr9146]

I completely agree ... doubletalk is a bit*h. I really can't explain the reasons for this anomaly, discrepency, whathaveyou.

I can only hypothesize, based on evidence given, that Nissan, Toyota, et. all "dumb down" their "lesser model" cars, if not solely for the sake of preserving/justifying the higher cost of a nameplate. Remember, this is only a hypothesis ... but it seems to be proven time and again.

As far a "smart consumer decision" is concerned, if I wanted to make one of those, I wouldn't even buy GM ... I'd buy Japanese. But I'm not a smart consumer, I'm an impulsive one. I buy what I like ... not what scores the best on a freakin' survey. The only surveys that I trust are the surveys that I conduct ... that way I can subcounsciously control the outcome to fit what I believed from the outset.

This discussion's been fun ... peace, I'm out.

[SteveStromberg]

I just Saw the Datsun Er Nissan ARMADA Its a super sized Pathfinder.