cayenne VS. Toreg
 

Hey any body know if Vws toreg is the same platform as the cayenne. Is porsche and Vw in some sort of relationship again? I thought porsche had devloped the cayenne all by themselves and was a completly new idea? I saw the ad for the toreg and it looked very similar to the cayenne. I could see buying the toreg for a family car as probably closer to my price range. Just really intrested in learning more about it.

Ben
77 911 3.0
75 914-6 2.7

I would think the platform is the same. It's to expensive to develop one name plate for a single platform.

From the automotive press:

BTW: I thought Cayenne was a dumb name, but its pure marketing genius compared to "Toureg".

Like they say, the folks in the African Touareg tribe all drive Land Cruisers...

They share the same platform, and I vaguely recall reading that they also have the same transmission, which is actually Japanese designed and manufactured. Something about supporting the torque of a diesel V10 engine required this. Engines and trim are not shared between the two models.

I drove a Toureg V8 and was not really that impressed with the dynamics on the highway. It was overly stiff and skittered a little. I though it felt even bigger than it looked, and was rather trucklike (imagine that).

But then I don't care for SUVs in general (we were shopping for my wife). We have pretty much settled on getting her a 2-year-old or so X5 4.4 instead of the Toureg.

They sure look a lot alike from the outside.

I saw a light blue Toureg coming out of El Pollo Loco the other day and thought "Gee, that light blue really accentutes the natural homeliness of the Cayenne." Only to get a lot closer and see the VW emblems.

Interestingly enough, the Touareg is pronounced "Twah-reg".

I think it'll boost VW's Sales perfomance beyond their expectations. It would do very well here in Australia - demand is high (from within VW). I don't even know if we're getting it here. I did hear that a guy I deal with through work, just took delivery of a new Cayenne Turbo. I'll report my findings when I go see him next. He'll let me drive it. :cool:

Adam, Still not sure if I like the Cayenne, but that turbo model will be stupid fast. :cool:

I needed a new towing vehicle for my 911 and trailer and was waiting for months for the Toureg to come out. (The Cayenne didn't qualify, I could'nt stomach the "911 on stilts" look to the front end.) I saw the Toureg at a car show and thought it looked better. I think it is a better "value" but still had many questions about a cars quality control with such a large jump as a first year production. I have noticed a disturbing amount of problems with other VW products also lately. Before they arrived at the dealership, I came accross a BMW X5 4.6is at a local dealership and was instantly sold. No comparison in looks of performance. Here's a picture but you really have to see it in person to appreciate it.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1059226654.jpg

I wonder if the Toureg is built in Mexico like all their other crap.

"Quality is job Juan!"

I'll run the other way thanks... (former 98 GTI owner)

VW quality (and Audi for that matter), IMO, is in the toilet. IIRC, they ranked near the bottom one of the lastest JD Power quality surveys (the one in which Porsche ranked first BTW). Personally, if its not Porsche, then I buy Honda - easy to get parts, great technical manuals, and great reliability.

I am pretty sure that the Cayenne & the Taoureg(sp?) are both built in the Porsche Leipzig factory. They share all platform details, but as I understand it the drivetrains are unique to each, VW having it's own AWD system, and Porsche developing an all new one for the Cayenne exclusively.
They may both use the same Tiptronic, I am pretty sure Porsche has been outsourcing that for quite a while to Mercedes, ZF and others.
Sickening fact; the base 4 speed automatic in BMW 3 and 5 series sedans is made by.......GM!!! It's hard to know what you are getting these days with all the cross breeding going on..:(

No BMW 3 series or 5 series comes with a 4 speed automatic. Even the lowest of each of those models has a 5 speed automatic. (At least in the US).

They call it the Tour Hog here in Californy......:p

Word. At least not in the last 4 years.

What particularly amuses me is that VW can't spell. The Bedouin tribe--I've written films about them--are the Tuareg, always have been, always will be. And because VW figured we stupid Americans wouldn't be able to pronounce it correctly--TWA-reg--they are now telling us the word is TOUR-egg. Morons.

Stephan

The Toureg is built in some former east block country, can't remember which one, Hungary maybe? Anyway, not in Germany.
It shares the doors and front half of the roof with the
Cayenne. Some of the floor pan, suspension area as well.

Since the Toureg is full time 4WD and quite heavy, it's fuel economy is pretty bad, 15/20 for the V6, 13/18 for the V8. There is no provision to switch to 2WD mode. In my area the V6 is going out at around 36K and the V8 at 45K. Not cheap but you can't touch a Cayenne for less than 62K here.

I drove the V6, you can really feel the weight-performance is
nothing to write home about. Build quality appeared pretty good though. Time will tell how they hold up....

fSW: "VW can't spell"

No, they are doing that to create a copyrightable entity. The interesting part is whether the tribe might own even that as cultural property -- but VW is much safer this way.

Interesting...it never occured to me what Randy points out about the copyrightable entity. I suspect he's right.

Stephan

I don't think there is much threat of anyone stealing THAT name!

Also, Jeep didn't have to mis-spell "Cherokee" and Porsche didn't have to mis-spell "Cayenne" to have trademarks or copyrights on those names as applied to motor vehicles. Why would Porsche have to?

Or Malibu, Impala, etc., etc...........

But then again, that was a loooooong time ago. I think that the most amusing car-namers are the folks at Nissan, they make up words that sound like real words w/ positive conotation; Altima/ultimate, Maxima/maximum, Xterra/??, and my new favorite, the Murano/moronmobile(?) :D

So is Porsche still privatly held by the family or are they in some sort of partnership with VW-Audi? Is this like the 914-4 vs 914-6? I last had heard they were independtly held and were the one and only to be family owned? this just raised my eyebrows>

Ben

77 911 3.0
75 914-6 2.7

Porsche needed a partner to share the overhead of putting to model out. According to an Excellence article from the last couple of months, Porsche tried to combine with Mercedes, but found they had more synergies (their phrase) with VW. The two vehicles share the same platform. Much of the equipment is the same between the base models, but supposedly anything you can touch or see in the Porsche has a different cover on it, even if the internals are identical to the VW (such as the turn signal stalk). That is meant to give the Porsche a completely different look and feel to it, to keep the VW from cannibalizing the market. The turbo is supposed to be much more different. The VW has some obvious detuning of the engine, suspension and 4wd capabilities, but they seem pretty similar from what I can see.

Heh, that reminds me of the time that GM decided to let copyrights be dammed.

Does anyone remember back in the 80s when they named a car the Beretta without concern of getting permission from the gun manufacturer from which they were stealing the name?

A good friend of mine bought a VW bug, and within one week, it broke down on her, and she had to have it towed. I pointed this out to my wife - she keeps asking me all the time "why can't we just buy a new car so it won't break down..." I told her that problems will happen with cars no matter whether they are new or used. The only exception seems to be if they have the name "Toyota" or "Lexus" on the back.

-Wayne

Wayne that is simply not true. :rolleyes:

My 81 Toyota Tercel blew a head gasket with only 196,000 miles.

Here in the UK the car is known as the "Toe Rag"

It got a terrible pasting on the motoring program "Top Gear"

Intresting that it is not a purebred! Not really a big deal as love my 914-6 conversion and my dads 356sc is almost completly porsche? I just thought they looked to closly related for 2 different car companys not like toyota and lexus which is one company.

Ben

77 911 3.0
75 914-6 2.7

I think that Santa Fe vs Touareg would be more appropriate.:D


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1059437958.jpg

On the topic of the ugly trucks from Porsche/VW... that Infinity FX45!!!! Damn I love that thing! THAT's how a Porsche SUV should look. I get wood everytime I see one of those. Guess its time to start making room for one.

I agree, the FX45 has one of the sportiest stances and profiles of any SUV out there right now.

I saw one of these at the PGH Grand Prix in person. It definetly is a great looking car. The downside it seats only 4 people, (family of 5 here) and I'm not sure of the towing capability.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1059440640.jpg

.

Porsche is a publically owned company. They are neither owned by the family or any afiliate of vw. The two companies have shared a long history of working together, however. The original bug was designed by porsche and the first porsche production car was somewhat based on the bug. The two companies also collaborated on the 914 and then the 924/944.

Ian

'84 911 targa
'87 928s4 5 speed

Lots of speculation here. We'll see how things work out on the sales side. Right now, I think Porsche is having trouble selling the pepper-pot...at least in the DC area. Its too early to tell re: the VW, but their pricing is attractive. They outclass *everything* that's close to them on price. BMW, Mercedes, Caddy, etc will all be scrambling to answer...which is a good thing for me.

These days its hard to find a well equipped, semi-affordable SUV that has respectable off and on-road abilities, and can tow more than 5000 lbs (read -- car trailer). VW showed us that it can be done.

If I recall correctly, there is public non-voting stock and private voting stock. The privately held stock is in the hands of the family who STILL call the shots.

They are pretty hard to beat in any regard. My Land Cruiser has had only had 1 or 2 sets of pads, a light bulb, and a set of tires in 85,000 miles and still feels new. It is unbeleivable.

RE: The Tournog - I read in the WSJ that some groups are after VW - because this tribe was involved in the slave trade.

What marketing genius came up with that nightmare of a name. Can't spell or pronounce it - and it has links to the slave trade - some deep thinking went on there.

My other favorite car name was the Impact - a fuel hybred from GM. Who wants a car that reminds you of a crash?

Here's a little more food for thought on the Cayenne vs. Touarag as well:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1059497825.jpg

Maybe this is merely a rumor, but has anyone heard of the transmission problems some are having with Cayenne Turbos when towing? I think I read about it on Pelican...

Another data point -- a friend of my family bought a Cayenne S and has had numerous issues with the drive-by-wire throttle. He said its apparently a widespread problem.

I love how people cite data in the way that best supports their opinions, versus giving a factual account of all of the details. Yay...Porsche is #1! Riiight. Here goes:

The 911 was highest ranked the highest in the premium sports car category for 2003, with the Boxster ranked third. The corporate ranking was shown above. Here's the nameplate ranking.

http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/ima...03050bfull.gif

Buick beat out Porsche. Sorry guys. Audi and VW were below average.

Also, Porsche was really 4th when you look at nameplates in 2003. In 2002, the trend was similar, but the 911 wasn't ranked in the top 3 in its class. The Boxster was 2nd in its class, and Porsche overall was ranked 5th. Audi and VW were again below average. In 2001, Porsche was further down the rankings and the 911 ranked 2nd in its class. Audi was above average, VW below. Some things change year-over-year, some don't. Also, keep in mind that this data (I think) is on 3 year old cars. So for 2001, we're talking '98 911s (993). The 2002 ranking would have the first year of the 996 -- 1999, which is probably why the 911 fell out of the top 3. By 2000 (for the 2003 rankings), they had sorted out issues with the new model.

And here's a link to the full 2003 article.

http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=749&CatID=1

What's the difference between corporate and nameplate rankings?