besides the #'s
 

I must agree that it's a totally different beast. Yes, the SBC will have more torque, and yes HP/ Dollar will be a better thing. However, the driving aspect - you'll never get the experience the flat - 6 offers in terms of revability. A flat 6 at 200HP will outlive a SBC at a comparable power level if driven the way flat 6 can handle it. Keep the revs up on that crate SBC and you'll probably be breaking valvetrain stuff all the time - unless you spend the big bucks on roller, and then it's nasty to drive. That's one of the best things about the 911 is the tossability of the flat 6.

You'll be tearing down every 30K for various reasons. Not so with a flat 6.

If you install a SBC it's also got limited appeal now, so if you ever get bored and toss it, then you're all done. Save the money for a clean 3.0 or 3.2 around 100K and be done with it. You'll easily get 200K out of it if you maintain it - and you'll be able to beat the crap out of the thing, it'll live.

Also, to prove I'm not a Porsche snob - here is this morning's driveway shot - I've got projects booked till 2007 --http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123434819.jpg

avendlerdp hmmm i have a 650 hp full tube frame race car and i dont get it, ok , hmm it has a v8 chevy, hmmm, I think you should reread my post, i really dont care about a v8 in a porsche makes no difference to me, i was just stating a flat six sounds better then a v8 with the right exhaust, my 3.6 conversion has plenty, its not a race car, woops i have areal one, not a street car thats auto x's

ok, ok , ok,,,,,,
Thanks for all those opinions and I mean that in a positive way, its fun reading.
So many of you think I will not be paying much more one way or the either, ok, unless I get into serious HP, well 380 is real easy to get in the V8, I will start with that.
BACK TO the start of the thread, porchev seems to be the stronger better conversion kit, however their cooling system is questionable ( cutting holes ), everybody Ive talked to has a renegade radiator system however that adds to the cost as a new fuel tank is required. Comments on that please?

BTW, living in Edmonton, AB, Canada I dont have porsche engines or anything of the like I can pick up, I even have to ship in a transaxle, live where I live and the v8 has some merits. I will probably have to trailer the car to the US to get a corner balance when I get it back together.

Im leaning to the v8 option. I have not been getting much in terms of specifics of costs, problems, info on renegade or porchev. What concerns me is buying a 3.2 and findind out it will need a repair, Ive considered buying a dead flat-6 and going for the rebuild but that option is the most expensive.

I know about the heavier tail ( going aluminum heads ), I know about the 915 and clutch not standing up to the v8.

Im in touch with a few now via email, so Im on my way, research and planning is half the fun, tearing skin off my knuckles taking my car apart is the other half and putting it together down the road will be the last half, since its a porsche there are 3 halfs to the project :)

I guess what I was saying was perhaps the best way to do it is to source the parts seperately and save a few bucks. If you have some fabrication skills you may be able to do the radiator on your own and save $. Look directly to Kennedy Eng. for the adaptor and clutch etc.. As for the 915 issue, my money would be on you getting a lot of years of use out of one if you keep yourself from doing tire frying, redline clutch drops in the malt shop parking lot.

Alex

Rarly...well spoken.

Listening to the self-appointed gaurdians of all that is "pure" Porsche and self-described "air-cooled nuts" gets old.

People have been stuffing engines from one manufacturer into the chassis of another forever. Unless the car in question is an irreplaceable part of Porsche history, what is the big deal?

Cars are an expression of what appeals to the owner. Go check out a GoodGuys meet and you will find literally thousands of different itterations of what constitutes "proper" or "pure" yet most of the attendees seem to appreciate the effort involved in each car (many of which cost far more than your average garden variety Porsche) without ripping on the owner for making the particular choices that he or she did.

Every time someone floats the "V-8" question, a number of people on this site seem to take it as a personal affront, yet nobody seems to get too hung up when cars are turbocharged, lightened, cut up, backdated, updated, PMO'd, etc.

Lighten up.

Sometimes I get on ebay to laugh
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-924-Porsche-924-chevy-V8-engine-faster-than-a-porsche-911_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6431QQitemZ45666433 63QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Here is another pile

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-911-912-ZZ4-Porsche-912-with-Chevy-ZZ4-V8-MOTOR-Daily-Driver_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10156QQitemZ4566 593580QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Now then the other end of the spectrum is Todds Car or my friends. He is just starting a twin turbo project but he has been running this car with a ZZ4 for about 5-6 years without any problems
Yes it is fuel injected and the intercoolers will go in front of the rear wheels. this is just the low boost app to see how bad the cooling problem will get. then on to higher boost and forward intercoolers.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123469851.jpg

If you want the scoop then email me.

Yeah, just like listening to people who want to chop up Porsches to put inferior engines in them gets old too. This is a Porsche board boys; you wanna wreck 'em, you gotta expect some flak.

ianc

I think Wayne might be well served to establish a separate forum for conversions like this. He will benefit from keeping the conversion gang on this site and loyal to Pelican - the conversion is accompanied by LOTS of new Porsche parts as well. Converters will be upgrading suspension, working on shifters and gearboxes, upgrading brakes - just like the purists.

The Pelican members will be happy to have a location not beholden to either Simpson or Renegade where converters can discuss questions like the one that started this thread.

A word of caution - it would require strong moderation as it gets started so it doesn't go the way of previous "unbiased" sites that degenerated into brawling between Simpson and Renegade loyalists.

I asked Wayne to set up a conversion BBS five years ago.

Most of the stuff sold by Pelican can be used in any 911 regardless of the drivetrain. If nothing else it is much more interesting to see and talk about V8 converted 911s than the endless pile of "what tire fits on a 6 inch rim" crap posted here every other day. This stuff is TECHNICAL. Going beyond the factory into taboo.

And speaking of taboo, H2O911, that twin turbo job is nuts!

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gif

That is usually what happens when the only metric focused on is HP.

If some hate this so much why do they read the thread.:D must be curious?

I keep hoping to see something other than a shoe-horned in block with a big old oil-pan hanging down. (or is that oil-pan pushing the engine UP? )

Not exactly engineering excellence. More like a 'Hey, watch this'- moment.

I hope that if someone is wobbling, I might be able to push them back onto the proper path instead of see them descend into darkness. ;)

ianc

I have been asking the same damn question all along. Because you now own the same damn brand of a car, therefore you should do like em', think like em'. Someone even call the V8s inferior engine.

I think this is one hell of an interesting project. Everyday, I can't wait to log on and get more info from others who have done the swap. Oh, and the pics. Man, those are so cool. Lots of time and work on em'. I have to agree with Rarly (sp) its a lot better then what size wheels, paint color, or you gotta back date.

Jeff

Here's a well-executed example. With no shoe horn and no oil pan hanging down. And LOTS of new parts (hopefully from Pelican)

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/custo...ackyard008.jpg http://www.renegadehybrids.com/custo...b_ernestw8.jpg
http://www.renegadehybrids.com/custo...0car%20003.jpg http://www.renegadehybrids.com/custo...0car%20007.jpg
http://www.renegadehybrids.com/custo...otos%20004.jpg http://www.renegadehybrids.com/custo...b_Ernestw1.jpg

the problem is that there are so few well done cars where the owner spent the money to make it work well and nice.

there are 2 pieces of crap on ebay right now.
" porsche v8 chevy" and you will see the 924 and 912.....poop!

a few of my mid engine favs

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123594130.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123594166.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123594293.jpg

Flame on.....

I am not saying convert your car.......but if you are going to do it ....then spend the money to do it right.

That fake "luggage" is hillarious!

Alex

Jesus... Talk about blasphemy! In my neighborhood someone would probably try to steal it!

ianc

That is "done right" ?

Looks like it would have the handling of a Ford Explorer on Firestone tires.

the two mid engines are just some extreme examples.

I took a guy for a ride in my car that lives down the street from me that has a nice mid 80's stock 930. He said (as I stepped on it a few times in first and the tires broke loose) "Man I wish mine had that kinda torque"

I guess he does not count, because he has a stock 930 and he is a chevy mech that works at a dealership here in town. He never asked me how to convert his car I guess because he can appr. his stock.
However, it was nice to hear him say that I wish mine had that kinda torque.

My guess is the people that scream the loudest have never ridden in a well converted car...... just someones poor conversion that overheats, gauges that don't work......etc.

Some even talk them down that have never driven in one at all because changing an engine "is not the right thing to do" I try not to give advice on things that I know little about but some feel that they have a duty to mentor everyone.

Furthermore, I have talked many out of doing a conversion and helped a few do it right.

It is not for anyone that is concerned about how it will effect thier social standing....nor will you be a big hit with anyone but the HotRod group.

You just decide if it is right for you and that is yours to decide.

It is just a car.......isn't it?

Hi SmileWavy center of 8-mass ....



meet, LOW 8-CENTER OF SMALL MASS



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123606641.jpg

the smallbock with aluminum heads is less then a 930 weight.

on the theory of high vs lower mass I guess I would rather drive around with a woman in the seat next to me with a big rack and small rear rather than a woman with no rack and a large rear or in this case no woman at all because there can be no weight above the centerline of the crank.

.......it's just a car and 20-50 above the crank is nothing that my driving skills could detect.

neat engine...... is it in you 911?

;) just having fun.

. . and then I say; what about all that water plumbing?

then you say; what about all that oil?

then I say; weigh all that crap to support the V8

then you say; but the power to weight isn't that bad.

then i say; the torque is too much for the drive components, unless they are beefed up.

then you say; yeah, but if your careful with it (or weld in massive structure.

then I say; weigh all that crap to support the V8

then you say; your just jealous of my big HP

then I say; haven't we been here before?


:cool:

Exactly! :) Nicely said.

I get a kick out of these threads because it is like a trial with out the lawyers ;)

Good one Steve. I like that a lot.
Aftermath, it really is just a decison you have to make and the only opinion that matters is yours. I have been working with H20911 and Todd for the last five months and the help they have given me is above and beyond anything I could have every expected or hoped for. They have helped me eliminate a lot of bad decisions and guided me along the process very well. You know you want to do it so just do it. If your car is like my 80 SC, it wasn't restoring but it was perfect for this project. I would not do this to my 944 which is in outstanding condition but the 911 wasn't like that. Just start it, take your time, don't rush, and plan your budget (then double it). I have a lot of extra parts of the kit and other parts you will need to include a radiator so you can email / pm me and I might be able to help you out in getting things together. For tech purposes, H20911 is the guy, I'm just the guy sitting next to the guy (with lots of parts).

That´s good! I have a customer here who absolutely want to have his 912 with V8 engine in the middle of car.

More info about the gearbox and engine configuration?

Any mods at the chassis?

/mattias

Then I say, "You guys are all idiots, (the good kind, who have sensible discussions like this one), because I'm getting 300 hp from a STOCK 2.5L turboed 4 cylinder subaru motor. Not only am I lighter than ANY 911 or Chevy conversion, but that's plug and play daily driver reliable. A built subaru STi motor can throw down 420 hp easy from 2.5L, and I hear that guys in japan are getting 700 from the 3.0L 6 that comes in Legacy H6's."

:D :D

sjd
just happy with my 115 hp 1.8L...wait...no I'm not...

Good point altporsche! I am contemplating pulling the 327 out of my 914, selling it for good money due to it's early Corvette block #, and installing a Suby. Cooling system is in there already so I should be a snap. Better fuel economy too!

Alex

Why not just put your body on a Blazer chassis... then you're done.

:D :D :D

Anyone know who the Porsche V8 GURU is in socal???


thanx

It's interesting to read through this thread, the ridiculous purist flaming, but more so how "cheap" Porsche parts were considered a decade ago.

I'm seriously considering a conversion at this point because spending $20k+ on something that's slower than a late model minivan...Ain't going to happen.