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912 / type 1 engine conversion

Hi, I hope I do not get insulted by purists, but I am building a 1966 912 w/ VW type 1 engine; I have most of the parts for the engine (either 1641 or 1776/1835) but do not know if heater and accelerator cable will work and how about the engine tin; has anyone done it, or have any ideas? Thanks in advance for your help
Old 10-25-2000, 04:07 PM
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When we were on vacation back in June we ran into a guy staying at the same hotel who had done this conversion to a '68 912 Targa.

Didn't get into all the details with him, but IIRC he said it basically bolted right in and he used a stock VW clutch with a 912 throwout bearing. From what I could tell, all of the stock VW engine tin was there and intact - although I don't recall looking to see if the heater boxes were there.

Old 10-25-2000, 09:03 PM
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Why do you want to go with a T-1 engine? the 912 came with a dual carbed 1600c 4 cyl. the 1641 or 1776 won't give enough performance inceasce to be worth the trouble. I could understand going with a radical T-1 engine but, it sounds like you are looking for a daily driver. a 1641 in that car in my mind would be very disapointing at best. I would recommend an upright T-4 with a 911 fan. You can use a T-1 fan to cut cost. A stock 2.0L will work fine and give you good performance with dual 40mm webbers. as far as exhaust with a stock 2.0L you can use modified bus heat exchanges and muffler set-up. any a tought to pouneder.

larry
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Old 10-26-2000, 09:23 PM
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My '66 912 had a 1600cc VW Type 1 motor in it when I bought it, and will have a 2110cc stroker VW Type 1 when I finally finish it's restoration and get it back on the road. I decided to stick with the VW engine because having owned 2 Beetles in the past as well as helping my brother rebuild his '66 Ghia, I'm pretty familiar with Bug engines. Parts are much easier to find, cheaper, and the Type 1 does indeed slip right into the Porsche 901 transaxle-even the (12v) flywheel ring gear meshes with the Bosch SR17X starter (same as most Type 2 Vans.) The mounting bolt pattern is the same, but you do have to use a Porsche 912 throwout bearing. I just figured hey, I've already got an engine I know, it fits, building a 150+ hp 2110cc stroker will still end up being cheaper than a stock (90 hp-maybe) rebuild on a 912 flat four, and with a 36 HP fan shroud and dual Webers, very few people are going to be able to tell the difference-and hardly anyone will care. You will have to do a little fabricating to use your stock heater valves, and probably a new, universal throttle cable. The rear mount will take a little work, since the only VW's that used a rear engine mount were the Type 3's-but most cases have the bosses already drilled and tapped for the mounting bolts, so it's no big deal.

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Clay Mcguill www.geocities.com/the912guy
Old 11-07-2000, 02:28 PM
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Why a type 1 engine? The guy I met on vacation said a re-ground 912 crankshaft was $2800. The 912 engine uses a 82.5mm bore and a 74mm stroke to the VW's 85.5mm x 69mm. IIRC, he said Porsche decreased the size of the journals to make up the difference, and as a result the crank was the engine's Achilles heel.

The type 1 engine he used was a stock 1600 - don't remember if it was a single or dual carb setup. He had the optional 5-speed and it had no problem accelerating around the twisting mountain roads we were on. He never really got down on it, or revved it very high but from the passenger seat it felt like it was pulling pretty good. As well as a 912 engine? Doubtful, but considering it was missing ~40hp it was holding it's own.


PS - I've got a copy of a Car & Driver (October 1965) with a roadtest of a 912 5-spd. Engine output was 102bhp @ 5800rpm and 91lbs/ft @ 3500rpm.


[This message has been edited by Scat(\/)an (edited 11-07-2000).]
Old 11-07-2000, 10:29 PM
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If you want it to go fast put in the Double Nickle 1955cc 90.5by76.8 Type 1 case with a waterboxer crank and dual Zeinth 32 NDIX use 36hp doghouse shroud and it would look fairly stock. Check out this site www.veemotors.co.uk/ I build the same engines but I only use 90.5 pistons as it much hotter here in SOCAL. Steve 818 508 0582 OR

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Old 11-15-2000, 04:11 PM
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Thanks,you all have been very helpful; I will use either 90.5 or 94 Cylinders/pistons, I need your opinion on the 94mm pistons and for Cooling/oil, Is the doghouse cooler ok? and is a 1.5 qts additional oil sump neccessary?

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Old 11-16-2000, 10:15 AM
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Use 90.5 as they are "thicker" and will stay round much longer. Only use the Doghouse cooler. A trick way to go is to use the 911 cooling shroud system with the extra cooling you could go to 94mm. It would look like a 911 when you pop the deck lid.(Only your hair dresser will know for sure.)Where are you located? Steve 818 508 0582
Old 11-16-2000, 11:56 AM
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90.5 and 94 are the same thickness. Just more heat with more surface area.

Read the engine tech articles at www.cal-look.com and www.aircooled.net and you'll figure things out. A nice setup is the 4340 82 stroke vw rod journal stroker from CB performance www.cbperformance.com and 90.5 p/c set. Buy a set of 044 heads 40x35.5, a 1.5" merged header, dual 44 IDFs, build it right, and you'll get 100K miles out of it and make a reliable 130 horsepower. A C/R of around 8:1 works. Don't go too high.

Steve
Old 11-16-2000, 12:45 PM
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As I said 90.5 are thicker as comfirmed by site you suggested aircool.net how to build hi-po motor. Save your money the Double Nickel is the e-z way to go.As the need for barrel spacers is gone, the engine is the same with as stock. Vanagon waterboxer crankshaft is a forged factory part that cost $150 How much is the CB crank without bolt on flywheel 210mm to 228mm. Steve 818 508 0582
Old 11-16-2000, 02:38 PM
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I missread aircool. net page. they are saying the 94 they carry are 5mm thick cylinder walls like the 85.5. 94mm+ 10mm Measure between fins the external diameter of the barrel if it excedes 104mm they are correct.What make are the P/c they sell? Steve
Old 11-16-2000, 05:13 PM
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I checked there site NO Brand names(one piston set said CIMA). Do Not use Brazlian engine parts.Save you money do it right only use GERMAN parts.Steve
Old 11-16-2000, 05:23 PM
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Although German parts are of course of higher quality, I had a contact with a VW factory engineer from Wolfsburg; he stated in case I can not find German replacements that should obtain Mexican parts over the Brazilian. Now, where can we find german pistons/cylinders? CIMA/COFAB/MAHLE are made by the same manufacturer and I believe KOLBENSMITH are now almost impossible to find, By the way I live in Georgia and as you know summer temperatures are between 85 to 95.

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Old 11-17-2000, 07:56 AM
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TRY www.ismi.net/riecherttuning/index.htm Steve
Old 11-17-2000, 08:50 AM
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TRY www.ismi.net/riecherttuning/index.htm Steve
Old 11-17-2000, 08:50 AM
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Lots of stuff.
85.5 90.5 and 94 are all the same wall thickness.
Engine width shouldn't be a problem in a 912. The compartment can handle a six with overhead cams, remember.
The wasserboxer crank you mention isn't counterweighted, but for the money is an OK option.

For the money it would be best to build the combo I mentioned. It will outlast the wasserboxer crank conversion, make more horsepower, and end up costing less IMO.

All Cima T1 pistons are made in South America now. NO quality problems, they've been made there and no Germany for many years now.

The 104mm Type IV stuff are chinese cylinders that Eurorace has cast and they are the only seller of those type around here. They sell them with JE pistons, forged, made in the US. (This info is off topic, they are for Type IVs, not Type 1 engines).

Steve Arndt
Old 11-17-2000, 12:03 PM
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The the muffler from CALIFONIA IMPORT PARTS that fits a Type 3 it uses a 74 Type2 muffler turned upside down with two extention pipes. One from heater box,the ohter from exh. port you will need flanges on heater boxes. NBD no big deal. I have Type1 New Old Stock parts if you need any good stuff let me know.The Judson Supercharger sit over in the corner would make that a"912+" Steve
Old 11-17-2000, 01:18 PM
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When I said it is the same size as stock it refer to crown of the piston being in the same distance from the center of the crankshaft as a stock engine.The added stroke 76.8 vs 69 which would move the piston crown height out 7.8 mm is canceled out by using "B" stroker pistons which have a shorter wrist pin to PCH ( piston crown height).The need for barrel spacer and longer pushrods and all other B.S. that go's into build a stroker is gone. This is the e-z way to go. Want to see a problem you run into with a long stroke goto www.shoptalk.tunacan.net SEE Captian Panics rod hitting cam lobe.
Old 11-17-2000, 03:57 PM
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I understand what you meant now Steve, I jumped the gun. True, Bs and short stroke present no problem. Then again, cutting pushrods, stretching tubes, and custom fitting engine tin isn't a big deal. I've build a 78 stroke T1 with A pistons before and huge spacers w/ long rods.

Old 11-21-2000, 10:57 AM
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I like the forrest gump approach.Keeping it smiple allows the novice to build strong fast engine the first time without grief.Steve
Old 11-21-2000, 02:06 PM
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