Hello Tood
I can see your exhaust looks very proff. but you have a lot of weight out the back? i have made this for my 911 ls1. it just makes the "right" kind of noise, it is not critic just another way to make it;)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1290197568.jpg
I dont know if you use a thermostat in your cooling system but i have ysed one from an old BMW 2002 because it is a loose unit u can mount in the hose so you can control the flow better. Have a nice daySmileWavy

conversion
 

thought that i would also add some info regarding gauges. i am in the process of converting my 78 930 to a LS7 engine. i decided to use gauges that are fed info from the ecu. the gauge package will include a 4/1 gauge mounted centrally with the GPS speedometer and tachometer mounted on either side. an oil temp gauge and a fuel pressure gauge on the ends. the 4/1 gauge includes the oil pressure, water temp, amperes, and the fuel level. the fuel level sender is self calibrating for the individual tank used. lots of gauge faces, led lighting, sizes, colors, and bezel, etc. main thing that i was interested in was not to have to deal with sender units for the porsche gauges. also the gauges come with plug in harness, etc. the gauges are by Livorsi...no affiliation...just for info for you non purists! no intent to cripple the thread..

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GPS spedo sounds cool, any pics if the guage cluster?

todd, i have not received the gauges as of yet. but, you can go to their website and review all their stuff. just google livorsi gauges. they do mostly marine gauges but also have an automotive section. their gps speedometer also has an odometer which was not available previously and the antenna mounts beneath the dash and does not require line of sight to the satellite. and it only goes to 160 mph....go figure?

these are the first two gauges that i received...not exactly what i wanted...do not like the white interior ring so i returned them..want all black with white numerals and red pointer. also asked them for a smaller bezel..http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1290269271.jpg

WOW! I think your project is totally awesome! I know you went through a ton of trouble with the radiator in the rear, but I think you will have more luck with the radiator in the front and reduce the weight from the back of the car.:)

Let me be more specific in order to NOT offend anyone. To take a 911 and remove the engine for another brand of engine and go at great lengths to engineer it to fit, the new engine or solution would need to have many benefits over the original motor. The LS1 makes perfect sense because of many factors: more power, reliability, efficiency and in this case, less weight. To remove 50 pounds or even 100+ would be a huge benefit. To me, you have removed a lot of weight and now are putting it back by installing a radiator in place that does not improve weight distribution, only makes it worse. I am sorry, it makes more sense to place in the radiator in front of the car, also receiving direct air-flow.
I am, however, interested in seeing if your solution works well.:)

ej911, just curious, if the original 911 engine was well balanced weight-distribution wise and putting the radiator in the rear with the lsx results in a car 50 lbs lighter overal or perhaps the same weight and the radiator sits just on top of the engine , do you thing this car is going to fishtail or something as a result of just the radiator? I keep hearing all about the weight distribution but the weight is the same? Am I missing something or are you "just saying". If I have a cup holder in the car will that throw off the whole balance or only if its holding a cup of light and sweet with half and half?

All I am saying is that a benefit to the LS1 is the lighter weight, the loss of 50+ pounds in the rear. It is an improvement, I like improvements.

This has been discussed several times in this thread. Todd has already stated that he may place it up front if it doesn't cool properly, or if he feels the weight distribution is not right.

Update:
Swapped out the smaller Oil Cooler and upgraded to a 25 row high efficiency Oil Cooler. While installing I decided to raise the location into the fender and away from the muffler.

Results so far have been good and the water temp has not exceeded 205F and averages around 195~200. I am however questioning the oil temp and suspect I have the wrong sending unit. Oil temp gauge states that it is reaching over 300F within 20~30min, no signs of overheating or bubbles in the oil so I have convinced myself it is the sender. New sending unit arrived today and will get put on in a couple of weeks.

I also have done some intake modifications which I will upload the pictures latter today. Here is a teaser "Duals"

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291054631.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291054642.jpg

Todd,

looking great. Can't wait to see the other photos today! I started the wiring today on my 89. Sleeved everything to the engine compartment. The mufflers are installed. Eventually I will do a crossover but will wait until everything else is running. Radiator is coming...

:)

2nd time around with the dual air filters was successful. I had to modify the pipe and weld directly to the MAF plate to give clearance of the radiator. After a month or test drives and taking the car around the block a couple of times the fender mounted air filter was caked in dirt and rocks, seemed like a good idea at the time :)



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291060354.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291060369.jpg

BTW
Attached are some pictures from my oil temperature sending unit. I suspect that the VDO unit and aftermarket 4-in-1 Gauge are not playing well together and giving a false temp. I ordered a standard Sunpro unit similar to what am using for water temp. Will keep you posted..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291061689.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291061705.jpg

In China now so no update, I return next week and should be able to swap the Oil sender. Also noticed before I left that my alternator bearing was squealing so not to happy about that considering it has less than 20 miles of test driving :( It was a cheap refurb model from Fleabay so guess you get what you pay for..

Update:
Finally got around to changing out the oil sending unit and experimenting with my coolant system. As suspected I was using the wrong oil temp sending unit and once changed oil temp is staying steady @ 194F :)

In regards to the radiator and trying different combination's of anti freeze Vs distilled water here are the results:

50/50 Tap Water + Dexcool (GM Recommended Antifreeze)
First test: 30min idle time while sitting in the garage with no incoming air (Outside Temp 60F). Fan's pulling in air and pushing over the intake and engine. Temp range after heated up was 198~205F. Average coolant temp @ 200F.

Distilled Water
First test: 30min idle time while sitting in the garage with no incoming air (Outside temp 60F). Fan's pulling in air and pushing over the intake and engine. Temp range after heated up was 194~198F. Average coolant temp @ 194F.

Distilled Water + DEI Radiator Relief
First test: 30min idle time while sitting in the garage with no incoming air (Outside temp 60F). Fan's pulling in air and pushing over the intake and engine. Temp range after heated up was 192~194F. Average coolant temp @ 192~194F.

Conclusion:
Distilled water significantly reduces max operating temp by 7 degrees while DEI Radiator relief provides an additional 4 degree and safety for lubricating the system. Since I live in Florida and do not need to worry about snow, ice or freezing I see no benefits for using Dexcool.

Plan to do some driving tomorrow and will monitor the performance.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292788751.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292788763.jpg

For those curious on how I have been filling my system and burping out the air check out the pic below. I have the cross over vent tube from the heads fitted with a tube and valve that I feed back into the top of the radiator.

Prior to my experiments I drained the system and measured around 1.6~1.7 gallon capacity.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292789046.jpg

Looking awesome! My radiator will be mounted officially tomorrow on the plain old turbo lid. I hope I reach your results soon!

Outside temp a little higher today and decided to put some load on the engine with a couple of high RPM passes. Here are the results


Distilled Water + DEI Radiator Relief
First test: Temp range after heated up was 194~198F. 3 passes under acceleration and the temp raises to 205~210 then settles back down to 198F while in idle.

I am a bit concerned that in 98F degree Florida weather these numbers will raise 5~10F which is on the high side of my goal.

What do you guys think about a 160F thermostat?

I believe I have a 180F which I will need to confirm with RH

Talking to the guy who programmed my computer at Jim's Performance - my fans should go on at 197F and off at 195F. He said that he programs the computers much less then GM and that GM sets them around or above 215F to go on. I think you are going to be fine. I would wait for the hot days and see where you sit.

Agree, I am over engineering it and setting my 200F max limit to high, reality of living in Florida and where the radiator sits 210F will make due.

Drove the car for over 3 hours today within the city with several stops and did not see anything beyond 212F.

Something that still puzzles me is why my car can idle in the garage with no air flow and maintain 192~194 with the fans cycling every 10 or 15 seconds. Once on the highway cruzing @ 65mph in 5th gear and no load the temp will raise to 205~208F, I would have suspected that the temp would go down :confused:

I am also 2nd guessing my 3rd X-over muffler as being overkill and causing some exhaust restriction and back pressure into the heads wich could be causing the higher temps.

Other issue with the X-over muffler is that it is producing heat soak in the rear and is only about 1.5" away from the crank pulley. Already had 1 alternator belt turn gummy and start squealing. Replaced belt after less than 5 miles and OK for now.

Taking the car into the shop tomorrow and plan to just use the side mufflers and a diffused exhaust tips.

Once you start pushing the car, the horsepower kicks in causing more heat even though the air flow is now cooling it. Take it to a drag strip and do some 1/4 mile runs and I'm sure you temp will rise high above 220F.

I am going to put a cross over pipe on my exhaust. Not the cross over muffler but just the pipe along with the 2 regular mufflers. First I need to get the darn thing running! Just got my tach back and along with the fuel/coolant temp gauge. Christmas is coming!

And where is the new video of the car flat lining it in on the streets of Miami! Lets see some burn out video!

I have just started reading your thread and have had many ls1's. Great engine and very reliable. However, placing the radiator in the back is a problem. Idle in the garage lets the fans do thier job. Going down the road, the outside air will actually start pulling the air away from the fans. Believe me. I had the same situation when i removed the original belt fan and installed electric fans. I know you think it doesnt relate to what you have but i have seen other ls porsche conversions with the radiator in front which was better not only for cross flow but the added lenght of hose helped immensely. They have turbos mounted in the rear of front engine mount cars and the added length of hose going back to the engine even did away with a subcooler. something to think about. try driving till the temps go up at different speeds for varied amounts of times and stop. Watch the temp fo down. Logic would make you think that after driving and then stopping they would keep climbing. I think they will go down. let me know what happens. You have the best of both worlds, with your conversion. Good luck!g\

Getting some great feedback on this and appreciate everyone's comments, I did some more testing yesterday and here are the results:

50/50 DI Water + Dexcool + 160 T-stat
First test: 30min idle time while sitting in the garage with no incoming air (Outside Temp 70F). Fan's pulling in air and pushing over the intake and engine. Temp range after heated up was 186~190F. Average coolant temp @ 188F.

After 30min of idle time I did my last minute Christmas shopping and drove the car around town for +2hr, as you can imagine traffic was horrible but I did get a couple of open stretches and back roads where I could nail down the pedal.

During this time the engine did not exceed 220F and averaged 210F while cruzing. While in traffic at a light the temps would begin to fall under 200F.

Oil temp once engine is heat soaked is around 245F.

Overall the system is maintaining steady temps and is able to suck out the heat from the radiator when needed.

I will keep the current mixture till summer time and see how it holds up in 98F Florida weather.

ls1 is a great choice of engine for a v8 swap. Nice work

Week 2 and around 100 miles of testing and under "normal" driving conditions the temp range is 210~220F with weather conditions in the 60's. Performance is unbelievable and so smooth when the power comes on, like a Porsche on steroids..

Under harder driving conditions and higher RPM's the temp does reach 230F which I am not to happy about. The radiator is completely capable of drawing out the heat but I talked myself into this being a capacity issue. The system only holds about 1.7~2 gallons which from what I have seen is half the recommended fluid. Larger jugs on the radiator and slightly thicker would probably have been better.

Still on the fence what I want to do and plan to ride it out and enjoy having it back on the road. Just need to keep an eye on the gauge and Florida's summer weather.

Once I hit the 500 mile marker I plan to get her Dyno tunned and tweak the 5.7L PCM to the 6.0 Vette motor I have, this should free up another 30~50hp :)

BTW, had the tires break lose in 3rd gear.. First time my Porsche has ever did this and I have 12" rims sitting on 305's..

Something doesn't sound right. What rpm do you have at idle and at cruse speed?

Sounds like a flow issue to me, either airflow or a restriction in the coolant flow. I suspect I don't have a ton more core area than you, but my temps go down at freeway speeds to ~165 if I remember. I notice I have a significantly larger cooling pipe cross-section... Might be something to look at.

Couple of things to consider - cooling....
 

Hi Todd-

Great 911 LS1 build - fun to watch from the side lines.

Please remember the following is must my observations and opinion - but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Couple of things to consider for the cooling issues:

1 Radiators are not designed to be layed flat - like in your current configuration - any air in your system is either sitting in the side tanks or the tube/finned area- any air in the tanks or tube/finned area will lower effeciency considerably.

Suggestion - tilt the radiator with inlet higher than the exit - like it was designed to do. Wont take much of tilt, but get the air to the top.

2 Once a 911 is rolling down the highway the area above the engine grill or whale tail is a low pressure area - meaning that air will be drawn up from the bottom of the engine compartment through the radiator. Think air plane wing - the rear of a 911, even with a tail is sloped like a wing and the trailing area - the roof, back glass and engine lid are in low pressure zone. In a 911 with the air cooled engine -the engine cooling fan pulls a ton of air through the grill and this is not an isssue. Look at mid 80's 935's , they raised the back of the 911 body way up in the air and ducted air to the engine fan from the side of the body to help elminate this low pressure area.

Hence the reason when sitting still, your fans can push air through the radiator, but once moving they are fighting the native aero of the 911. I would guess there is very limited air moving through your radiator at speed - hence the reason you run warm on the high way, but cool at idle.

Suggestion - 1) install 2 large Subaru WRX STI style scopes on the top of your grilled area of your tail to grab air coming off the back window (this will give the air in inlet via high pressure) and 2) then vent the tail/lid with very large holes/vents above the rear center reflector below the trailing edge of your tail - - so you have an exit (even more important than the entry) in a low pressure area - sucking the air through the radiator.

3 If the raditor is the highest point in the cooling system - that is not good - get an expansion tank - not a surge tank - and place it a few inches higher than the high point in your cooling system....get the air to to the tank and out of the radiator.

Hope this helps.

Outlaw 911

I have been thinking about what Outlaw 911 added about the scoop. I've attached 2 photos from BR Racings GT3. Anyone know how to get one of those scoops?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1294550816.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1294550875.jpg

Been sometime since my last update so figured I would share the latest on my LS2 conversion.

After several months of trial and error and testing the rear radiator I decided to revert back to a RH front mount radiator and gas tank. Lucky for me a fellow Pelican Mkingham lives locally and had a tank @ the right price to help influence my decision, the guys at RH were also a great help.

Regarding the cooling ability of the rear mounted radiator it did the job and handled the Florida heat under normal driving conditions but I was not 100% satisfied when the engine was heat soaked and driven hard. The issue was not so much temperature related as max temp would achieve 235F and would drop to 215 quickly once in idle. Concern I was having was IAT and heat that was being spread across the intake manifold and robbing performance. IAT would reach as high as 180F. This could have been countered by adding a heat shield and re-routing the intake.

Now for the new setup max temp has not exceeded 200F and runs between 192~198F with IAT around 98F. To help facilitate this I have added 2 huge K&N filters in replacement of the smaller cone. Gas gtank was wrapped in DEI tunnel shield and I used the leftover shield to create a underbelly pan that extends beyond the tank and around the fuel pump. Great product, easy to work with and very happy with the results.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1301151316.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1301151367.jpg

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BTW, you can not see from the picture but the radiator lines from the front to the back tuck under my rockers. With my 993 body kit there is a 2" pocket :)

Looks great Todd. Glad it's working well for you.

The DEI floor and tunnel shield is nice stuff, we use quite a bit of it. Another product that a customer turned us onto is called Armaflex. It's available in sheet form and is 1/2" thick closed cell foam with an adhesive back. It's also moisture resistant so it's great for automotive use.

A lot of people have run the coolant hose through the front crossmember instead of under it. I haven't heard of any issues. We typically weld in aluminum 1.25" stubs so the hose connects on each side of the crossmember. It looks nice and is easy to do. Just make sure you have the angles right the first time. It's a real pain to fix if they are welded in wrong. If done properly I doubt there would be an issue just running the hose right through the web of the crossmember, but you may sleep better at night with it welded.

Steve,
I saw your conversion and based on your last post here I have come to the conclusion, you are a class act.
Todd car looks great, do you have any room in the trunk for luggage.
I am still toying with either putting an STI or an LS6 powerplant in a shell I bought a few years back.

Been driving the car daily now with temps in Florida reaching well over 90 and no issues at all with cooling or reliability. The power is great and raced a worthy opponent yesterday, 2009~2010 Carrera S.. Although I was not able to pass him I was glued to his rear bumper from 20~100mph :D which was impressive.

The car is a mid-range monster with the 915 tranny and I foresee a 930 tranz withing 2 years and before any huge power adders.

I am guessing my HP is around 375~390Hp but still could benefit +40Hp from removing the 2 side mufflers and a Dyno tune.

Very nice,Im in St Pete,love to see it in person sometimes.Cars and coffe this weekend at Dupont if you can make it.

BTW anyone wanting to purchase my old radiator setup I am selling for $350 and will include flex hoses. Been sitting in the garage since I removed

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1305899532.jpg

Whats up with this project?

If it was possible to build a set of 180deg headers to fit a 911, I would have also thought about doing this conversion. A LS motor with 180deg headers sounds wicked.

MIke