RSR LS Conversion

[not_hans_stuck]

Originally Posted by Mitch Leland

I have a LS3/480 HP in my 2003 996 C4S. I can tell you if you do the conversion with new parts it's a whole more than a engine rebuild. Now if you do it on the cheap and don't have to sub out any of the work then that might be a different story.

My big cost was sorting the electrical...

Mitch,

That's a great looking car. You still haven't called to tell me when you're bringin' it by!

Hal

[not_hans_stuck]

Originally Posted by Tremelune

I recently procured a Volvo 740 wagon with a Chevy V8. Now I want an LS in every car I own. I thought I could pick up an old 912 with a blown motor for cheap, but...those days are gone.

I wonder what the cost to rebuild a 3.6 will be when mine finally needs it compared to the cost of a Chevy crate engine...

To me, this is like any project car. You can either do it cheap or do it right.

Done right, it isn't cheaper than a 3.6 rebuild.

[not_hans_stuck]

back from vacation yesterday.

not a lot of energy today, but the pressure is on.

First project of the day was a small one. Got up, went to mcdonalds then lowes and bought some flashing.

Now the cowl intake is sealed off. While I like the brushed look, there's a future plan to wrap that, and some other stuff in carbon fiber wrap. it's distant future at this point so this is where it stops for now.




Second project was to finish plumbing in the header tank.

This first shot is straight down on the drivers side.

The header tank is on the bottom right and the front of the car is to the left on this picture. Imagine you're standing at the driver side rear tire, looking straight down.

The hose closest to the top of the picture attaches to the bottom of the header tank. This is the fill tube. It crosses ahead of the motor, under the crossmember, over the bellhousing where it connects into the main return line on the passenger side.

Also in this picture, there are two other lines coming from the header tank. The clear one is an overflow - I'm just venting it to ground. Because I'm using NPG+ cooling, there's no vapor pressure so I really don't expect any overflow except when I first fill it.

The third line coming off the header tank is for the steam tube. I really don't know what to expect out of this. I may eliminate them. I need to speak to the NPG+ guys.

Ignore that mess of wires down there. That's a future project. I'm concentrating on water right now. I think most of that stuff is for the gauges. The thick yellow line, I think, is the starter solenoid. Many of those wires will get wrapped.




This picture shows the passenger side. The rear of the car is to the right and the front to the left.



This picture shows the electric water pump on the right. It also shows the fill tube line from the header tank teed into the main return. It's also a really great shot of the Gates PowerGrip SB shrink wrap hose clamps. I love those things.

Third project for today was to install the intake air sensor. I also broke the throttle position sensor and needed to replace that.



Also, I had some time to ponder a few issues as I lay under the car trying to figure out what's next.

First. The Meziere water pump came with a weatherpak connector. I had no idea this was a weatherpak connector until I purchased a kit from DIYAutoTune.

Now, here's the issue. The one I bought was for an 18-20ga wire. They make one for a 14-16ga wire. The wire coming from the relay is 10ga. So, I'll be calling them tomorrow to work out something. I also need to purchase a crimp tool. Dang weatherpak terminals are crimp-on and funky.

Second, I had to buy a new radiator cap. All I could find was a 13lb. I wanted a 7lb. I'll call Evans tomorrow. I also need to buy two or three more gallons.

Lastly, I'm rethinking the water lines, the gas tank, the heater hose routing and the battery location.

Yeah. I know...

[Mitch Leland]

Hans,

I wouldn't discount keeping the "steam line" connected. I believe they prevent air from being trapped in the heads of the engine and the dreaded vapor lock. My steam lines are tied into the flow of water to the top outlet of the radiator.

[Mitch Leland]

Hans, I also took the steam line apart so the outlet was on the driver's side which was closer to the expansion tank. I wanted to cut down on the serpentine of hoses running all over the engine bay. It turned out to be harder than I thought since you had to get the angles of the steam line on the base just right.

[Mitch Leland]

In regards to the steam line... I thought about it later, an airlock in the water system isn't going to create "vapor lock", boiling fuel will do that. An air lock in the radiator water system will create a cavitation with the electric water pump.

I hope that is a better explanation...

[not_hans_stuck]

Thanks Mitch.

I called Evans this morning. Evans doesn't create steam and I'm using a vacuum filler. Despite this, they said that the rear corners of the head are a low flow area. Coolant tends to pool there and not circulate well. The steam vents will allow positive circulation so the recommendation is to leave them. I blocked off the front one's and used a Gm part that only ties together the front two. They also said the 13lb cap was fine.

Hal

[Mitch Leland]

Good information... When you say the front two, you mean the front as if the engine was in a front engine position? Which is now the rear? My LS3 engine came with only the steam lines tied into the front of the engine, I didn't realize there were another set on the bell housing end as well...

How have those hose clamps worked out? What name do they go by?

Thanks,

[not_hans_stuck]

Front two meaning towards the front of the car/rear of the motor.

The hose clamps are really cool. They're Gates PowerGrip SB. Easy to install, easy to remove.

They don't seem to work that well on small hoses though. I'm not sure. They're installed but they seem weak. We'll see what happens when pressure and heat are applied. I have worm clamps at the ready!

Next couple of posts will be about Weather Pack connectors.

Hal

[Mitch Leland]

Thanks "Hal"...

Do the Gates clamps have to be installed before attaching the hose to the pipes? I've got to many (at one time I counted all the connections, there were 27) hose connections now to go back and replace with the Gates, however I love the looks and I think they have a definite benefit with the gate clamps expand and contract with the hose.

I'll be axious to hear about your Weather Pack connectors... seems like you're on the cutting edge of all things.

Thanks,

[not_hans_stuck]

Mitch,

Yes they do. They're continuous bands. Think of them like really thick heat shrink tubing.

Hal

[Mitch Leland]

Hal, Tnx for the reply, are you installing an oil cooler... I installed an aircraft oil cooler, but if I'm in 90 degree plus temps, stop and go traffic I can get some high oil temps. 240 degrees plus, I pushed 250, but never more and only for short periods. Sometimes I have better water temps than oil temps, not sure why.

I would install a larger oil cooler with a fan, but haven't figured out where to install it...

[not_hans_stuck]

Mitch,

Not planning an oil cooler. We'll see how it goes.


Hal

[not_hans_stuck]

We got a lot done this weekend but, again, most of the work doesn't really show in pictures.

I think that's why you never see these projects close out.

We installed the two relays for the water pump and fuel pump.

We made grounding cables and battery cables and ran them where they needed to go. I decided to relocate the battery to the footwell behind the passenger seat. I'll have the upholsterer build a carpeted box that disguises it. This is the optimal position for this install because the a/c heater unit will bolt to the top of the smugglers box making battery access nearly impossible. With it behind the passenger seat, I can easily reach the cutoff switch. I'm using a rennline box but I haven't received the new bottom plate to convert mine from the smugglers box kit so the battery is just sitting on the floor for now.

We also extended a small bundle of 4 wires that were wired to the positive terminal on the original installation. We routed this through the bulkhead in front of the clutch pedal and under the carpet down the side of the tunnel.

We put both relays in the engine compartment. The positive side is wired to the charging post on the alternator. That's a straight 6 gauge wire back to the battery, so it should be fine. The ground is bolted to the engine.

The signal wires for both only reach up to the drivers seat, so that'll take a pigtail.

With all of this we were at the point that we could spin the motor with the starter.

Since the motor has been sitting for awhile (check the original date on this thread!), we decided we'd prelube it.

I purchased a Melling Pressurized Pre-Lube tank. You drain all the oil out of the engine, fill the tank and using compressed air, you pump it through the engine with compressed air.

While it's pumping you rotate the crank one full turn by hand (remove the plugs), this will get oil to flow through the oil holes on the crankshaft and hopefully prevent you from jerking them out of their seats when you crank the motor the first time.

The general consensus among the members on this board that have put LS engines in their car is to buy a new one because all the junkyard motors eat their bearings shortly after being returned to service. I think this is the reason why. Pre-lubing a 350 is easy, you just use an old distributor and a drill. Since the gerotor pump on an LS is crank driven that won't work. The Melling is the way to do it on LS engines (and Coyote motors, too, BTW). We'll see how it works. If this engine spins a bearing, I guess we'll know. (I need everyone to think happy LS thoughts for me. Thanks)

After we turned it by hand, we spun it up with the starter. We'll do it again this way when we start it.

We also tested the relay for the water pump. We didn't run it for more than a second or two but it was enough to verify that it works as advertised. The fuel pump wasn't plugged in up front so we didn't test that.

I'm thinking one more day like Saturday and it'll be running.

Here's a youtube video of the prelube and the starter spinning the engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXyTDe_NBp8&feature=youtu.be

I can't embed video's sorry. At least the link works.

Hal

[not_hans_stuck]

I felt bad about not posting any pictures two weekends in a row, so here's a shot of the two relays.

The hole on the right is the one the oil tank sat in when it had a porsche motor.

[not_hans_stuck]

Spent the day making connections.

Made up the relay connections for the radiator.
Made the cables that run back to the battery for the radiator fans and the trigger wire.
Finished the battery cables and the battery mounting.
Made up all the connections for the computers hot-all-the-time wire.
Made up a relay for the computers ignition wire.
Sorted out which wire to use for the ignition relay trigger wire.
Spent a bunch of time running from store to store buying the right color wire and all the tiny stuff you need to make it look right.

Here's some pictures of the detail work.



A couple of examples of connection quality. The hose is a fuel line. It's all Russell. Russel Pro-Classic II hose with Russell crimp-on ends.

The electrical connector is from the radiator fans. The two outer wires are 10 Gauge power lines - 1 per fan/relay/fuse. The middle two are the signal/trigger wires for the relay. I decided to feed them back to the computer which has a Fan1/Fan2 pair of wires. The Wires are wrapped in nylon mesh (expect for this end).



Here's the battery mounted on the floorboard behind the passenger seat. It's in a rennline mount that I trimmed and leveled with with delrin bushings.

This is before all the connections were made up. I just tried to take a picture of it, but it's kind of a mess with all the tools on the floor and the battery charger plugged in.




We have to install the fuel tank, the heater/ac and the radiator tomorrow - then it's crankin' time!!!

H

[Mitch Leland]

Nice work, we've got to get together for a show and tell... I got tickets last week for Rennsport V, I'll drive my car to the show. Hopefully they'll let me in the gate... LOL

[not_hans_stuck]

Yes we do. Next weekend should be starting weekend. Need to post the update from Sunday.

[not_hans_stuck]

Sunday. Let's see. What did we do?

We started the day by troubleshooting turn signals. They mostly work. Still no brake lights.

Most of the day was spent running lines around the front trunk.

We ran the fuel lines up through the center hole near the steering gear. We folded the body clamps onto them. Then we cut out the holes through the Rennline smugglers box lid a little bigger and ran the fuel lines through them with grommets.

The heater lines that come out of the crossmember are now routed under the gas tank and come up through the sheet metal to the left (as you look at it from the front of the car) of the smugglers box.

I noticed that the heater lines are now very vertical and constitute the highest point on the car. Even though this is now higher than the fill tank, I think it will work because I'm going to use a vacuum filler. I may need to put a bleed valve in the top line. If I do, that'll be easy. Once I figure out where to source a bleed valve.

We then put the radiator back in, plumbed it in and plugged it in.

At this point we were still pushing to start the car.

We were, in fact, 1 hose clamp short so there was no way it was starting.

We decided we would stop once the fuel tank was mounted.

We installed the tank and had trouble matching it up with the mounting holes I had cut earlier in the day. It bumped up against the radiator box. Ultimately, this was where we stopped.

This week I'll have to disassemble the radiator - again - and then re-bend the side shrouds to shorten them probably an inch. And, really, it's only an inch at the bottom. The top is fine. In essence, I'm just making the rear shroud slightly more vertical.

I've ordered a new top shroud from Renegade as the previous one was trashed by one of the shops that worked on it. I had them send me only the back part. I'm going to install a piano hinge so that I can get access to the radiator. Most of the guys that build these cars just leave the front wide open. Mine has the chevy bowtie grid on the front so I can't just reach in there.

here's a teaser photo. It's very similar to final but not final.



Hal

[not_hans_stuck]

First start!!!!

It runs!!! On 3 cylinders. Lol.

Oh well. At least it's running. Now we can get on with it.

Here's the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6b695zO278&feature=youtu.be

Hal