Any new radiator options?
 

Looking for an option to be able to fit dual radiators up where the factory oil coolers usually sit.

Has anyone seen this option from a vendor? Most kits either require you to cut up the spare well or put it in the rear spoiler, which I am not looking to do.

Boxster ones were pretty small.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/1d...bd4021005b.gif

I don’t think we have enough room in the front fenders to fit Boxster side radiator.


These Audi S4 supercharger radiators look interesting though, and combined with a center rad, could work nicely, maybe.

We need to have a thread about radiator options, where everyone can contribute, maybe we can start here.

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From what I've seen on my 964, there doesn't seem like there's enough room to fit a center radiator of any size behind the 964's bumper cover on there. It may be possible if you want to cut the spare tire bump away, but for me, I want to keep the body of the car as original as possible so that's not really an option.

Take a look at how Reece mounted a Jeep Cherokee radiator in his 911 that has a 964 body kit.

Evidently, the 964 bumper bar has a dip in it that clears a radiator nicely.

On my 76, I think there might be enough room behind the bumper to fit the top of the radiator.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-engine-conversion-tech-forum/930992-new-project-76-993-gt2-widebody-ls1-subaru-box-996-brakes-3.html

Yea. I had posted in that thread. From measuring the space, it doesn't even seem like the small 996/boxster 3rd center radiator would fit behind the bumper on a 964.

It looks like he had to do some cutting still, and the body on the '76 doesn't come out as much underneath the bumper cover area as it does on the 964. I think in addition to those details, the fact that he uses a 993 bumper also made it a bit easier.

I’ve been putting together a bunch of ideas on radiators, I’ll go ahead and post them here.

I’m going to measure the clearances on my 76 when I get home next week.

For the front radiator, one thing that’s important is to clearance behind it for airflow like the Carrera RSR. I’m going to do something similar, but try to clearance one side and mount a Spal puller fan there.

The 76 bumper looks like it has a fair bit of space behind it, and you can always cut out the bottom part of the U section, as it’s not visible from the outside.

Let’s see if we can put together measurements of our cars, and measurements of common radiators here.

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I would think it would almost be better/easier to just fit two radiators on the sides of the bumper, similar to where the factory oil cooler went, since no cutting would be needed and air would be able to flow through as is.

Here’s a little info about Pete’s truly impressive build with a M97 Porsche engine swapped into an early 911.

He’s got a pair of what looks like 2” thick core radiators which he states the core size is about 16” x 9”. He also reports no cooling issues, so this setup seems sufficient to cool that big 3.6L M97 in a race car.

His setup gives a total area of about 288”. A general rule of thumb is one square inch ore horsepower. I’m guessing Pete is pumping out about 350-400 hp there, but evidently his setup seems to be fine.

He also runs his radiators in series which is less efficient than a parallel setup. He runs the coolant lines (looks about 1.5”) inside the car. That’s fine for a race car, but wouldn’t fly with a a
Street car.

The radiator size info is on pg. 6 of the thread

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/518231-pvx-build-thread-one-view-slope.html

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while there's a HUGE variety of radiators available, it's worth looking through heater core catalogs too. enormous variety of dimensions and shapes but the hose pipes are usually 3/4 or smaller, maybe that would simplify running your lines?

like this one...almost 13x7.5" out of a big Truck
(google it)
Spectra 99340

That one looks like a heater core and not a radiator. Could possibly work in a way, but I wouldn't be exactly sure of its cooling capacity.

Any new radiator options?
 

The other question is how to get the water up to a front radiator.

The options I see are

(1) use 1.25” or 1.5” aluminum hard line all the way, and use a tubing bender. Then braze the sections together. This requires buying a tubing bender.

(2) Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing. This is semi flexible tubing that can easily be bent to fit the car. Stainless is not as thermally conductive as aluminum, but the larger surface area should provide a great deal of addition cooling capacity. Also, because of the rough internal surface, there is a LOT of turbulence which forces more of the water in contact with the surface. Corrugated stainless can also be TIG brazed.

Another option is to use multiple smaller tubes under the car. This increases ground clearance, you don’t have big lumps hanging down, and greatly increases surface area so you can run a much smaller radiator. Multiple smaller tubes are also much less visible from outside the car.

I think routing the radiator tubes in the heater ducts is a bad idea because the radiator tube will rub on the heater ducts, and will eventually rub through. Also, you don’t get any additional cooling as the heater ducts are well insulated.

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http://www.flexicraft.com/Industrial_Hose/SU1/



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As for radiators, this is a radiator for a Suzuki TL 1000S, about $130. This is a 130HP engine, so a pair of them should be fine for a Subaru or Subaru turbo swap. The core size is 7” x 15”, just a bit smaller than the pair of custom radiators used to cool Pete’s 3.6 swapped 911.

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I’ve worked out a center mount radiator plan, currently fabricating that pieces for it.

Here’s a link to the post with pics

https://www.facebook.com/271781213562344/posts/278171022923363/

And my build page :

https://facebook.com/arrowblau


Got a plan for the front mounted radiator and bumper, I've come up with a design that

(1) find clearance in the front for a radiator that does NOT impinge/protrude into trunk

(2) keeps the spare tire and original gas tank

(3) maintain the structural integrity and safety of the factory bumper

(4) provides a nice, sleek look very reminiscent of the 911 SC/RS bumper

(5) provides scrape protection for the radiator

(6) provides sufficient airflow for the radiator

(7) basically looks factory

The general idea is to retain the existing aluminum bumper, but modify it so it has that sleek 911 SC/RS look, fit the center mounted radiator behind the bumper, and fabricate a new lower valence panel that covers up the radiator.

I'm a big fan of the 911 SC/RS look (see the attached blue and white cars). But the problem is all the existing SC/RS bumpers are just fiberglass covers and provide no impact protection or structural support. The factory aluminum bumper is a very solid piece but is very ugly with the rubber bellows, impact strip, and all that. So, what I'm doing is welding an aluminum strip in the middle to smooth it out, and fabricating and welding a pair of aluminum side pieces onto it that match the SC/RS bumper sides.

The real challenge was finding a way to seal the bumper to the body, as the existing seal is this really ugly wide plastic strip, and the existing strip (usually called a 'smile') does not extend all the way to the back of the fender. Options were to move the bumper about 1/2" up and use fender welting, modify an early style seal strip, or use a Porsche 964 strip. I decided on the 964 style strip as many have used them on SC/RS and IROC bumpers, and it's by far the easiest route. The 964 strip extends all the way to the back of the fender and is a lot thinner than the existing smile. Also, the 964 strip bolts to both the bumper and fender, so it fits tight.

As for radiator fitment, I measured that there is about 35" between the bumper mounting posts, and about 9-10" of height from where I can place the top of the radiator inside the bumper to where it extends down. I don't want to extend it much further down as this would lose ground clearance, and could be dangerous for the radiator. I'll be mounting a center mount radiator directly in front of the nose of the car, and cutting away the back of that to make a duct for the hot air to exist under the car. This approach should create a pretty big pressure difference on both sides of the radiator, also allow me to fit at least one fan behind the radiator. The main advantage, however, is this approach does not impinge into the trunk area, I still keep the trunk and gas tank, and only lose about 3-4" of space in front of the battery. But unlike the RSR style duct, my duct will go around the spare tire on the right, so that I can keep the spare.

Then, I'll be fabricating a chrome moly cage around the radiator to act as both a lower valence support and as a protective cage for the radiator.

I will also be fitting an additional radiator inside the right fender, probably a from a Suzuki TL1000. This radiator core measures 15"(H) x 7-4/5"(W) x 1-1/4"Core Thickness, so it should fit nicely inside the fender well.

The radiators will be plumbed in parallel. This approach will minimize the pressure drop across the radiators, which is vitally important for impeller type pumps. See, impeller pump flow rate drastically drips against a high pressure differential. If you route the radiators in series, you get a very high pressure drop, and pump flow rate drops to a trickle. I will have to put an adjustable flow regulator in each branch and fiddle with them to balance flow between both radiators.

The center radiator will likely be a modified Toyota MR2 radiator. Here, I'll just have to trim a few inches off the bottom, and re-weld the tanks.

Ambitious plan !, sounds like the balancing between parallel rads will be tricky. I hope it works out as I want to redo the radiator setup in mine and will be following your build closely.

This is what I have now:

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1529675936.jpg

Any new radiator options?
 

That's a different setup, I've never seen one like that. I'd like to hear more.



Balancing is not that super hard, as the new 911 balances between three radiators without any control system. If the radiator passage size is equal, the flow more or less balances itself out.



If the passages are not equal, and in my case, the center radiator will produce more of a pressure drop than the size one, I'll have to fit a restrictor in the side one. Another option is to have a control system to dynamically adjust the flow.



Basically, in laminar pipe flow, all you need is a pair of pressure sensors to measure pressure drop, and you can estimate flow using the Darcy–Weisbach equation. I can code this into a microcontroller, and have this automatically adjust a diverter valve. The nice thing is pressure sensors are dirt cheap, like under $10 a piece, and Arduino microcontrollers are like $30.

OMG who did the hack job on the red car. Sorry but is one of the worst water cooling options I have seen. Your really taking structural strength out of the tub as it double walled and part of the crumple zone.

That’s why my radiator is going in front of the tub, behind the radiator. Only tub cutting I’m doing is an RSR style duct. And even that, I’m reinforcing around it with chrome moly tubing, so it should be much stronger than before.


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remember that rads dont *have* to be vertical up and down.

you could find a slightly larger radiator and angle it (even mount it horizontal!) as long as you've got a burp/expansion tank mounted higher up for air to bleed out from.

then less cutting required just to provide "fresh air ducting" and e-fan exhaust space.

Here is a video from Speed Academy where they installed 3 radiators to cool down the twin-turbo V8: https://youtu.be/tjeuM4vAvdM

I think it was done many years ago, around year 2000 time frame, and that is based on a service invoice I got with this car showing the replacement of 8 spark plugs. but it is how I got the car.
I'm concentrating on the drive-ability issues first, then I'll tackle the cooling setup and front tub restoration later.

I had some radiators built to put in place of oil coolers and ran a 6 core center rad and ended up switching it to a renegade hybrid unit, I installed a different fuel cell and wasn’t concerned about spare tire. All my hoses run through the rockers and I run a electric water pump, to fill system I use a 5 gallon bucket with a pump submerged in anti freeze and pressure to bleed system.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546149270.jpg
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Why did you switch to the renegade hybrid style?

What kind of radiator setup did you run before, and what were the problems with it?

I’m currently fitting a modified Jeep radiator in front of the tub, but with an air duct that’s similar, but larger than this.

I’m also going to be running a stock internal Subaru 3.0 flat-6. One of my strongest design requirements is that factory gas tank is not altered and I retain 100% use of the trunk.

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I am running a aluminum block 350 with TwinTurbo‘s, no intercoolers and meth injection To cool the charge. The first set up directed air through radiator and out the side aprons to the wheel wells and that air flow was not enough so fender radiators were added. It helped but still not good enough. I was wanting to keep the tank but it couldn’t flow enough fuel, I actually cut the tank up for the lower pan and had that installed on the first set, and installed a different fuel cell above it.

With that shroud pic where is the radiator going? You have a front shot, of how the radiator and shroud work together?

Oh ya, forget the trunk that’s what the back seat is 4��

I think I might have found a perfect radiator. I was going to use a Jeep Cherokee radiator as some have done. But I would have to shave about 50mm off the bottom to clear the lower valence, and notch the side tanks to clear the bumper shocks.

Turns out the Renault Alpine A310 has a 720X220mm radiator. This size fits PERFECTLY in front of the tub, where I'm making the cooling duct.

They're super cheap also, only $200 USD, and 56mm thick core.

The Jeep one is still a bit more core area, but the Renault Alpine radiator can evidently cool a 300 bhp turbo V6 just fine, and I'm only planning on about 260 bhp.

It certainly save a lot of time using the Renault radiator.

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What kind of fans will you be running?

Any new radiator options?
 

After some measurements, I found that three slim 8 inch fans will work well, like these

https://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-slim-fan-8-inch.html

I already ordered this radiator, should be here in a week or so. Then I’ll make a wooden mock-up and use that for the fitting.


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The radiator arrived today and I did some test fit ups, I think it will work well.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-engine-conversion-tech-forum/1019879-76-porsche-912-subaru-2-5-swap.html


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Here's another radiator option for side, fender mounted radiators.

The 2003 to 2007 Honda VTX1300S motorcycle Radiator.

The radiator core measures 7 inches by 13 inches. The tanks on the end are 1.5 inches by 7 inches.

This would be a perfect size to fit in the front fenders.

What else is great about these, is they come with a rock-guard grill and a fan shroud. It's all there.


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