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Any new radiator options?

Looking for an option to be able to fit dual radiators up where the factory oil coolers usually sit.

Has anyone seen this option from a vendor? Most kits either require you to cut up the spare well or put it in the rear spoiler, which I am not looking to do.
Old 04-18-2018, 05:38 PM
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Boxster ones were pretty small.

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Old 04-22-2018, 01:41 PM
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I donít think we have enough room in the front fenders to fit Boxster side radiator.


These Audi S4 supercharger radiators look interesting though, and combined with a center rad, could work nicely, maybe.

We need to have a thread about radiator options, where everyone can contribute, maybe we can start here.




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Old 05-30-2018, 05:40 AM
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From what I've seen on my 964, there doesn't seem like there's enough room to fit a center radiator of any size behind the 964's bumper cover on there. It may be possible if you want to cut the spare tire bump away, but for me, I want to keep the body of the car as original as possible so that's not really an option.
Old 05-30-2018, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Nguyen View Post
From what I've seen on my 964, there doesn't seem like there's enough room to fit a center radiator of any size behind the 964's bumper cover on there. It may be possible if you want to cut the spare tire bump away, but for me, I want to keep the body of the car as original as possible so that's not really an option.
Take a look at how Reece mounted a Jeep Cherokee radiator in his 911 that has a 964 body kit.

Evidently, the 964 bumper bar has a dip in it that clears a radiator nicely.

On my 76, I think there might be enough room behind the bumper to fit the top of the radiator.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-engine-conversion-tech-forum/930992-new-project-76-993-gt2-widebody-ls1-subaru-box-996-brakes-3.html
Old 05-31-2018, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Somogyi View Post
Take a look at how Reece mounted a Jeep Cherokee radiator in his 911 that has a 964 body kit.

Evidently, the 964 bumper bar has a dip in it that clears a radiator nicely.

On my 76, I think there might be enough room behind the bumper to fit the top of the radiator.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-engine-conversion-tech-forum/930992-new-project-76-993-gt2-widebody-ls1-subaru-box-996-brakes-3.html
Yea. I had posted in that thread. From measuring the space, it doesn't even seem like the small 996/boxster 3rd center radiator would fit behind the bumper on a 964.

It looks like he had to do some cutting still, and the body on the '76 doesn't come out as much underneath the bumper cover area as it does on the 964. I think in addition to those details, the fact that he uses a 993 bumper also made it a bit easier.
Old 06-04-2018, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Nguyen View Post
Yea. I had posted in that thread. From measuring the space, it doesn't even seem like the small 996/boxster 3rd center radiator would fit behind the bumper on a 964.



It looks like he had to do some cutting still, and the body on the '76 doesn't come out as much underneath the bumper cover area as it does on the 964. I think in addition to those details, the fact that he uses a 993 bumper also made it a bit easier.


Iíve been putting together a bunch of ideas on radiators, Iíll go ahead and post them here.

Iím going to measure the clearances on my 76 when I get home next week.

For the front radiator, one thing thatís important is to clearance behind it for airflow like the Carrera RSR. Iím going to do something similar, but try to clearance one side and mount a Spal puller fan there.

The 76 bumper looks like it has a fair bit of space behind it, and you can always cut out the bottom part of the U section, as itís not visible from the outside.

Letís see if we can put together measurements of our cars, and measurements of common radiators here.






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Old 06-04-2018, 08:55 AM
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I would think it would almost be better/easier to just fit two radiators on the sides of the bumper, similar to where the factory oil cooler went, since no cutting would be needed and air would be able to flow through as is.
Old 06-04-2018, 09:08 PM
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Hereís a little info about Peteís truly impressive build with a M97 Porsche engine swapped into an early 911.

Heís got a pair of what looks like 2Ē thick core radiators which he states the core size is about 16Ē x 9Ē. He also reports no cooling issues, so this setup seems sufficient to cool that big 3.6L M97 in a race car.

His setup gives a total area of about 288Ē. A general rule of thumb is one square inch ore horsepower. Iím guessing Pete is pumping out about 350-400 hp there, but evidently his setup seems to be fine.

He also runs his radiators in series which is less efficient than a parallel setup. He runs the coolant lines (looks about 1.5Ē) inside the car. Thatís fine for a race car, but wouldnít fly with a a
Street car.

The radiator size info is on pg. 6 of the thread

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/518231-pvx-build-thread-one-view-slope.html





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Old 06-06-2018, 01:31 PM
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while there's a HUGE variety of radiators available, it's worth looking through heater core catalogs too. enormous variety of dimensions and shapes but the hose pipes are usually 3/4 or smaller, maybe that would simplify running your lines?

like this one...almost 13x7.5" out of a big Truck
(google it)
Spectra 99340
Old 06-06-2018, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v2rocket_aka944 View Post
while there's a HUGE variety of radiators available, it's worth looking through heater core catalogs too. enormous variety of dimensions and shapes but the hose pipes are usually 3/4 or smaller, maybe that would simplify running your lines?

like this one...almost 13x7.5" out of a big Truck
(google it)
Spectra 99340
That one looks like a heater core and not a radiator. Could possibly work in a way, but I wouldn't be exactly sure of its cooling capacity.
Old 06-07-2018, 07:07 AM
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Any new radiator options?

The other question is how to get the water up to a front radiator.

The options I see are

(1) use 1.25Ē or 1.5Ē aluminum hard line all the way, and use a tubing bender. Then braze the sections together. This requires buying a tubing bender.

(2) Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing. This is semi flexible tubing that can easily be bent to fit the car. Stainless is not as thermally conductive as aluminum, but the larger surface area should provide a great deal of addition cooling capacity. Also, because of the rough internal surface, there is a LOT of turbulence which forces more of the water in contact with the surface. Corrugated stainless can also be TIG brazed.

Another option is to use multiple smaller tubes under the car. This increases ground clearance, you donít have big lumps hanging down, and greatly increases surface area so you can run a much smaller radiator. Multiple smaller tubes are also much less visible from outside the car.

I think routing the radiator tubes in the heater ducts is a bad idea because the radiator tube will rub on the heater ducts, and will eventually rub through. Also, you donít get any additional cooling as the heater ducts are well insulated.








http://www.flexicraft.com/Industrial_Hose/SU1/



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Last edited by Andy Somogyi; 06-09-2018 at 03:57 AM..
Old 06-09-2018, 03:50 AM
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As for radiators, this is a radiator for a Suzuki TL 1000S, about $130. This is a 130HP engine, so a pair of them should be fine for a Subaru or Subaru turbo swap. The core size is 7Ē x 15Ē, just a bit smaller than the pair of custom radiators used to cool Peteís 3.6 swapped 911.




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Old 06-09-2018, 04:04 AM
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Iíve worked out a center mount radiator plan, currently fabricating that pieces for it.

Hereís a link to the post with pics

https://www.facebook.com/271781213562344/posts/278171022923363/

And my build page :

https://facebook.com/arrowblau


Got a plan for the front mounted radiator and bumper, I've come up with a design that

(1) find clearance in the front for a radiator that does NOT impinge/protrude into trunk

(2) keeps the spare tire and original gas tank

(3) maintain the structural integrity and safety of the factory bumper

(4) provides a nice, sleek look very reminiscent of the 911 SC/RS bumper

(5) provides scrape protection for the radiator

(6) provides sufficient airflow for the radiator

(7) basically looks factory

The general idea is to retain the existing aluminum bumper, but modify it so it has that sleek 911 SC/RS look, fit the center mounted radiator behind the bumper, and fabricate a new lower valence panel that covers up the radiator.

I'm a big fan of the 911 SC/RS look (see the attached blue and white cars). But the problem is all the existing SC/RS bumpers are just fiberglass covers and provide no impact protection or structural support. The factory aluminum bumper is a very solid piece but is very ugly with the rubber bellows, impact strip, and all that. So, what I'm doing is welding an aluminum strip in the middle to smooth it out, and fabricating and welding a pair of aluminum side pieces onto it that match the SC/RS bumper sides.

The real challenge was finding a way to seal the bumper to the body, as the existing seal is this really ugly wide plastic strip, and the existing strip (usually called a 'smile') does not extend all the way to the back of the fender. Options were to move the bumper about 1/2" up and use fender welting, modify an early style seal strip, or use a Porsche 964 strip. I decided on the 964 style strip as many have used them on SC/RS and IROC bumpers, and it's by far the easiest route. The 964 strip extends all the way to the back of the fender and is a lot thinner than the existing smile. Also, the 964 strip bolts to both the bumper and fender, so it fits tight.

As for radiator fitment, I measured that there is about 35" between the bumper mounting posts, and about 9-10" of height from where I can place the top of the radiator inside the bumper to where it extends down. I don't want to extend it much further down as this would lose ground clearance, and could be dangerous for the radiator. I'll be mounting a center mount radiator directly in front of the nose of the car, and cutting away the back of that to make a duct for the hot air to exist under the car. This approach should create a pretty big pressure difference on both sides of the radiator, also allow me to fit at least one fan behind the radiator. The main advantage, however, is this approach does not impinge into the trunk area, I still keep the trunk and gas tank, and only lose about 3-4" of space in front of the battery. But unlike the RSR style duct, my duct will go around the spare tire on the right, so that I can keep the spare.

Then, I'll be fabricating a chrome moly cage around the radiator to act as both a lower valence support and as a protective cage for the radiator.

I will also be fitting an additional radiator inside the right fender, probably a from a Suzuki TL1000. This radiator core measures 15"(H) x 7-4/5"(W) x 1-1/4"Core Thickness, so it should fit nicely inside the fender well.

The radiators will be plumbed in parallel. This approach will minimize the pressure drop across the radiators, which is vitally important for impeller type pumps. See, impeller pump flow rate drastically drips against a high pressure differential. If you route the radiators in series, you get a very high pressure drop, and pump flow rate drops to a trickle. I will have to put an adjustable flow regulator in each branch and fiddle with them to balance flow between both radiators.

The center radiator will likely be a modified Toyota MR2 radiator. Here, I'll just have to trim a few inches off the bottom, and re-weld the tanks.
Old 06-21-2018, 10:25 PM
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Ambitious plan !, sounds like the balancing between parallel rads will be tricky. I hope it works out as I want to redo the radiator setup in mine and will be following your build closely.

This is what I have now:


Old 06-22-2018, 06:01 AM
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Any new radiator options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberlast View Post
Ambitious plan !, sounds like the balancing between parallel rads will be tricky. I hope it works out as I want to redo the radiator setup in mine and will be following your build closely.



This is what I have now:






That's a different setup, I've never seen one like that. I'd like to hear more.



Balancing is not that super hard, as the new 911 balances between three radiators without any control system. If the radiator passage size is equal, the flow more or less balances itself out.



If the passages are not equal, and in my case, the center radiator will produce more of a pressure drop than the size one, I'll have to fit a restrictor in the side one. Another option is to have a control system to dynamically adjust the flow.



Basically, in laminar pipe flow, all you need is a pair of pressure sensors to measure pressure drop, and you can estimate flow using the DarcyĖWeisbach equation. I can code this into a microcontroller, and have this automatically adjust a diverter valve. The nice thing is pressure sensors are dirt cheap, like under $10 a piece, and Arduino microcontrollers are like $30.

Last edited by Andy Somogyi; 06-27-2018 at 11:12 PM..
Old 06-22-2018, 08:27 AM
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OMG who did the hack job on the red car. Sorry but is one of the worst water cooling options I have seen. Your really taking structural strength out of the tub as it double walled and part of the crumple zone.
Old 06-27-2018, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRPJ View Post
OMG who did the hack job on the red car. Sorry but is one of the worst water cooling options I have seen. Your really taking structural strength out of the tub as it double walled and part of the crumple zone.


Thatís why my radiator is going in front of the tub, behind the radiator. Only tub cutting Iím doing is an RSR style duct. And even that, Iím reinforcing around it with chrome moly tubing, so it should be much stronger than before.


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Old 06-27-2018, 11:15 PM
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