Arcadia - every car has their challenges. SC's with headstands, 3.2's with valve guides. Doesn't hit them all. The Carreras are only a couple hundred pounds difference, but have a 37 HP gap to close. From a HP to weight ratio, the Carreras have about 15-16% more power to weight. And this is with the G50 transmission making up a good deal of it... The rev and torque can be addressed really easily in the 3.2 with a chipset, which many swear by. No need to bash the 3.2s to prop up the SCs, they are a great car with renown longevity on their own without question.

After 14 years, I opted for an 87-89, for the gearbox, and the improved AC VENTS. Not the AC - that still sucks pretty bad. But their are solutions for that.

So back to your original question as to why the SCs are down in the market right now, in addition to some of the points made, it could be that the current cars to market are not peaking buyers, or owners of good cars are holding tight. Hard to say. In my opinion only, and not something I feel strongly about or really care about, it seems the market has put a premium on the 3.2s lately, and the G50 box cars get a slight nudge. 964s and 993s are a different animal. I also firmly believe, the market will reward good cars - always. SCs will have their day in the sun, I have no doubt. Time will continue to decrease the available solid cars due to accidents, neglect, and bad decisions. Its not an investment per se, but a hobby that is not a COMPLETE black hole - I hope.

Matt - BTW - have you seen the new Seiko watches? They are badass...Love the red and black.
https://www.seikowatches.com/us-en/news/20221011

:D Sure.

I have not. I’ll have to look at my desk tomorrow.

My dad always wore a Seiko until his company gave him a Tudor for 35 years of service. I have an 80s Seiko in a drawer somewhere from when I wore watches. Only watch I wear now is a Suunto GPS watch for adventuring.

Funny my dad was also a seiko guy, still wears one. I used some per diem $$s when I was entering flight school and bought a Rolex gmt. 36 years and still my main watch.. I like this Seiko a lot.

He still daily wears the Seiko and the company watch stays in a box unless he’s going to some sort of event. He treats it as a dress watch.

You run, but you can't hide. You just drive things into the weeds in trying. I was in Hong Kong at age 21 while you were maybe 12? The only thing I bought was a Jade ring for my pops which he wears to this day (cool big one at good value then and genuine).

Speaking of watches, I have never worn a Seiko -- that is a dorky watch to wear for jewelry although they are premium quality mind you. Last year I sold my Breitling Black Bird which I wasn't wearing, sold my blue faced Mariner Rolex years ago. Still have a nice Rolex that was a present from the parents 20 years ago. Can't sell that or I would probably. Don't wear it much, just wear a plastics blue watch which is light so I can tell time in the classroom on the job.

As per BTR, you are dead wrong as usual. Don't forget how you mocked it and me (M1 and you). I never rebuilt the motor in the end, cancelled it. I kept that money, sold the car as it was. I never lacked the ability to finish it. Actually I have the ability more than you to finish out cars from scratch and all in bits like a 73 RS, an R34 GT-R and countless others from 20 years ago. What have you finished out? :D

Nah! The Ruf BTR III was something I left on the shelf too long out of sight, out of mind -- saving best for last. I finally realized I didn't want to finish it out since I bought property in the mountains and was consumed with house projects X 2. I grew out of it! Besides, it's too fast to drive or enjoy with speed limits nation wide here, a no brained for me, so I cashed out. Now stop all your spreading BS about me and my RUF on this forum and try to find a little humility from within yourself if it were possible. :)

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

I have several Seiko Pogue’s and an “Astronaut’ (style worn by the shuttle crew in the 80’s) that belonged to my dad… I have a pretty decent watch collection, but I mostly wear my Samsung Galaxy watch.

https://fifthwrist.com/seiko-pogue-chronograph-review/

http://www.digital-watch.com/DWL/1work/seiko-a829-6019

Don't care much about your watch collection really. It's a bit boring. Why don't you tear into how you and M2 mocked my RUF? Got any balls left on you M1?

Who's "Daddy Wasn't There"? (see Austin Powers)

Try Mini Me (M1 vs M2). :D

That hurts man.

Funny, I’m sure you wouldn’t be so bold in person.

Last word.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674150750.jpg

guys, get a room.

sheesh...

I have no idea what this has to do with anything.

Something about a drop in SC values, maybe?

No, no, I think it was "my watch is better than yours" thread. :rolleyes:

Take this SC value nonsense somewhere else.

It’s a “the 915 is better” thread. Just ask Suga.

always feel honored when MC Markie Marc checks in! hope you are well my man.

Awesome.

I had to see what happened when this thread went to page 5. Sugar checked in... WOW.
Who knew Ol' Sugar could stir the pot that well with one line.
With the help of the Bernie-Matt show anyway.

kickin' it, tobs. kickin' it...

X2!

3.2 are the last, best 911s before they started 'improving' them.

I have had two seasoned Porsche mechanics tell me the 3.2 is the best of the era. I did my homework before I bought my 85. Why would you not choose motronic? Takes care of the motor with no fuss. Motronic controls everything and is super reliable . What I wrote up above is all true.

You know what? "I did my homework" also, over the last 15 years, owning both a 964 and 993. Boasting about antiquated upgrades like the MFI, increased HP (LOL!!), and better brakes on a 30-40 year old 911 is just laughable. Who gives a rats at this point in time. Talking about the improved "reliability" on the successive air-cooled models is futile. It's 2023, and there's not an air-cooled model out there that hasn't required extensive sorting and maintenance to date. Those upgrades mean nothing and certainly don't equate to a better driving experience in 2023. I've owned a 964 and 993. Both are considered far more evolved than the 3.2 and SC. That may well be, but I far more prefer the driving experience of my SC to both. So, you're not going to convince me that your 3.2 is a more pleasurable 911 to drive just because you did your due diligence and followed the opinions of "seasoned Porsche mechanics" who told you that the 3.2 is the "best" of the era for its NOW dated and obsolete components.

Actually the 2.7 was the best…..

i drove a couple 3.2 after selling my spec car and they felt heavy like pig. my SC even before huge changes during the racecar built never felt so lumbering.

2.4 was the best….

A 2.4E coupe with MFI is my sweet spot. No S/R, please.

Well said.

Besides, bigger is ALWAYS better...not.

2.2 E is the best.

The 2.2E powered 75 911s targa I owned a few years back was the most fun to drive of all the air cooleds I have owned.

Yeah, I have that engine too w/webers...

I just had this type of conversation with another buddy of mine and it's especially relevant to Porsches.

Some of the most fun cars I've ever owned have had smaller engines. The bigger is better smokescreen blinds people from the fun factor. Just look at what monsters are selling as sports cars today. Over powered, overly capable, highly engineered vehicles that are literally impossible to exercise on the street.

Give me a hot short stroke or 16 valve 4 banger to wring out any day.

Looking specifically at the auto industry from an engineering perspective it does follow an engagement/capability curve. As a new generation is introduced you lose a level of involvement to the latest technology. In the early days some of this “involvement” wasn’t exactly welcome like the manual crank cars vs an electric starter. Other technology can be debated like power steering. Personally I’m in an age bracket that appreciates a properly set up power steering. The level of involvement you’re willing to give up is often dictated by what you have been exposed to growing up.

My personal curve places the peak of the performance and driver involvement around 2010. Cars introduced after that take away some of that driver input/feedback in favor of electronics that can function faster than our brains.

It’s an interesting topic, not sure how it relates to the SC market though.

I find that I enjoy driving an older, lower HP car or bike closer to it's limits, rather than drive a high tech "nannied" car, whose limits are way beyond most driver once the "nannies" are de-activated.
My favorite bike is my '65 BMW R50/2. Cable drum brakes, F&R, and an Earles fork. 70 mph in a sweeping corner takes skill and gets the adrenaline flowing.