Why is the SC the ONLY aircooled model to see a 5% value drop since October
 

I realize that with the current economic climate, the 911 aircooled market is due for a marginal correction, but why has it hit the SCs first? Wintertime notwithstanding, there has not been one other model from the longhoods to the middies, and from the 3.2s to the 993s that has seen any decrease in value. They have all maintained their values since last year.

And another curious issue, is why the early non g50 3.2s, average a $59K valuation according to Hagerty, while the SCs average $47K. Just 2 years ago, these 2 models were at exactly equal valuations.

I humbly suggest that you change your own oil, and then go drive your 911SC and don't sweat 5%.

prolly means they were a bit inflated, and prices are merely correcting some.

wish my mutual funds were doing that good since october...

Inflation is through the roof... looming recession... you're worried about a 5% drop according to Haggerty valuations? There are so many differences in cars out there in general 5% is more or less like a margin of error.
Drive it and enjoy it... if you are worried about 5% I would go ahead and sell the car as prices are not going up again any time soon~

One month isn't a trend but possibly more an anomaly. Look at 3 and 6 month moving averages for
the best indicator of price trends.

Hagerty is traditionally behind almost a quarter on their values. And they are only 1 company watching and reporting such things. Meh.

Good news for me. I'm looking at an 80' SC Targa, all in bits for 11K. All dismantled but solid body, good paint (wine or something) Solid motor and tranny and no rust. My friend is coming back to the table, but he won't come out to the mountains until it warms up a bit (maybe spring?) Pussy for the cold weather he is... I'll just wait him out!

If you're valuing 50 year classic Porsches based on averages and you end up with a 5% difference one way or the other, you're wasting your time.

Macro-managing isn't for the weak of heart;)

Stock and mutual funds were down, some lost up to 25% of their investment value, in 2022. Then there's crypto.

If you think of your car as an investment (not recommended), you're way ahead in terms of loss.

Enjoy the car - the air cooled cars are art on wheels.

There was a discussion about this locally amongst the few aircooled cars owners. Consensus was the impression that SC's are more likely/prone to head stud issues than 3.2's, although not sure that is entirely accurate across the board. All 3.2's tend to get clumped together and averaged up by some of the later 88-89 "last of" buyers that elevate the overall average price in comparison to SCs. G50 may also have some impact as well. SCs are great cars and while there may be some ups and downs year to year, the overall trend for the G-body cars are doing pretty well. Agree with the scrum here, this is nothing to sweat.

Boy through a grenade into a snoozing board......

Interesting trend... 5% as previously stated; minor market fluctuations, higher interest rates impacting entry level purchaser.....

This is the Feds intention; markets are supposed to be slowing creating supply which lowers pricing.

I would go on to add the previous ownership and care. The SCs fell pretty low at one point and many had deferred maintenance or half arsed maintenance like we’ve seen that has made the trusty 915 so maligned. While 3.2s had the reputation of the valve guide seal issue, they didn’t get saddled as badly with that. And, because they have an early version of EFI, one can park them a long time and often start them right back up. A CIS car on the other hand frequently requires thousands in refurbishment of the fuel system to get back on its feet. There are very good real reasons why an SC shouldn’t be worth as much as a 3.2 and this 5% correction could be a real genuinely needed correction in response to a frothy market that artificially valued them both nearly the same for a while.

I’m talking average cars here. One could argue that a condition one or two SC and Carrera should be worth about the same. But I assert that condition 3 drivers should not be.

Great point Matt - my car sat for 13 years. The crew that got her going took 3 months, they checked the general condition, set the valves, changed gaskets and oil, but for the fuel system basically drained the tank, new pump and filter, cleaned the injectors and she fired right up.

Something to keep in mind is the average pricing includes really great cars, and some solid and tired cars. The floor certainly has come up, but the top end is flattening to an extent. Market taking a pause, idiots in DC jacking interest rates, all probably contribute. There is less discretionary $$s in the overall market, hence... It will turn, and pent up buyers will run it up again. Drive, enjoy.

Has Excellence had anyone of any substance step up since BA passed to do the yearly valuation article? I always liked that info, pricing comparison charts and what not. I have not looked through an issue since Aug of 2014 when they did a great article on the west coast PRC Spec911 class. still have that issue and may thumb through it next time the cable goes out.

BA lived in my hometown and a contractor buddy did some work at his house. He said it was like a hoarder's episode with paths around all the boxes of stuff.

5% is mouse nuts.

Those old issue valuations will make you cry..

They’ve made it an annual as a newsstand special. They do all the models all at once. Most of the copy and descriptions are his old writing, telling the difference of models and what to watch out for on certain years. And then all new numbers. It’s not as detailed, but still Carrie’s his fingerprints.

like to see you are lookin in from time-to-time noodles...

HNY sir.

short term noise in the data set and may not even be statistically significant

"If you care about the value of your 911, then you can't afford your 911"
@sugarwood

Curious assessment, as I've owned four 911s since 2011 and affordability has never really been an issue. But value has as I've netted over $50k in profits from the sales of those previous 911s. Not anything to shout about compared to a good mutual fund over 12 years, but then again, not nearly as boring.

Not sure I understand the quote…

Wood rarely makes sense.

look at ol sweet-stump causing a stir by dabbling around some here..

speaking in code he says If you care about the value of your 911, then you can't afford your 911

Where’s that shifting video?

https://youtu.be/AmOwHoJlK14

Speaking of values, BaT strikes again: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1989-porsche-911-carrera-coupe-8/

Then why are you freaking the fukk out about a 5% delta in the value of SC's ?

Pretty car and strong $$$. Careful not to sit in that one with greasy coveralls.

Why y'all harem boys gang banging sugarwood again? He's got some good ideas, and that quote is right on if you ask me. It's the love for the 911, not just what it's worth now or future. Some may not be able to afford the hobby but so be it. Sugarwood has good ideas too! For instance his Japanese car thread which is so addictive for many. I've made a point not to let M2 take it over just because he's such a JDM Hoser! :)

His post merely pondered the rationale behind the difference in value (this is the Marketplace Discussion Forum), I read no freaking into it. The whole "then you can't afford it" comment is the kind that screams demeaning arrogance. Not sure if that was the intent, but sure comes across that way and adds nothing but smug snark to the discussion. Not everyone on here is sitting on unlimited cash to pay dealership prices for parts and repairs, that is the whole idea behind the forum in the first place. So the idea that maybe you are not welcome because you can't afford it...shaking my head.

Truth is, if you can't afford it your out full stop! Dealer prices meh, who pays that that on this forum if they are smart and tactical? Sugarwood is just making a point i.e. it's not a poor man's hobby unless you have skills and knowledge to get over the curve. If you don't, you had better have some money up your sleeve ....

Again, the post was wondering why SCs are down in the market, when others or not. Arcadia was not panicking as if he was going to sell a stock that was going down. You really can't see that saying "If you care about the value of your 911, then you can't afford your 911" is some kind of twisted snark? Could the same be said about your house? By extension, if you worry about market value of your house you can't afford it? Did not read anything in Sugar's post about skills and knowledge. Regardless, not sure you are the arbitrating authority on judging if someone can afford the hobby. There is always a way, or it may take more time, but "out full stop"? Disagree. Not choosing sides, just didn't think Arcadia deserved the judgmental posts. I'm out.

There goes the neighborhood.

Yeah, the house! That's a more long term and better investment. Still, the cars are good considering...

He's a professional snarker. Those comments are meant to sound demeaning and arrogant. That's his MO.

And Bernie is always quick to jump right in with him.

Thank you. That's exactly the point of my inquiry. Why is the SC the only air-cooled model taking a hit? SCs are incredibly robust and reliable cars. And in the opinions of many, much lighter, rev happier and more enjoyable to drive than the 3.2s. And the oft disparaged MFI to me is one of the reasons that make the SC so good.

I think it is just data, and what is selling recently more than a real trend. The market will likely always put a small premium on the 87-89 cars as the "last of..." but a really good SC should still bring good money. Don't get me wrong, it is far inferior to say for instance, an 88 Targa (cough, cough), but still a good car :)

The current crop of cars for sale, good or bad can definitely impact the graphs. I’ve seen similar with the 964’s, lots of pigs with lipstick being sold and buyers are getting more savvy so they aren’t getting the crazy high prices which trends everything down. Many of the really good cars trade privately and never get placed on Hagerty’s list and frankly Hagerty’s insurance prices are so high that they only see a small portion of the market. Even BAT doesn’t see some of the really nice examples as there’s always a handful of buyers lined up to buy the good cars before they make it to market.

I wouldn’t read into it too much at this point. Long term Air cooled cars will very likely level for a bit and then continue their climb, especially as we move away from ICE and into other types of fuel/electric.

There's a real pretty 964 over here (not for sale) in signal green. If I get time in days or weeks I'll snap some if I can. Thought cobalt would like to see too. Getting 2.5 months off work shortly, so I'll make an effort. It's a cup car 3.8 race car one of 200 built, 17K km on the clock and you could eat off the engine that clean and pristine. :)