356 values?

BK911 · BK911's Garage

Its been interesting seeing the 911 market take off recently.
Nice drivers, not exceptional cars
Early 911s going for >$30k
SCs in the $20s

356s seem to be lagging lately. (Not the speedsters or cabs.)
Nice examples are not selling at $40k.

Did the 911 market overtake the 356?

Where do you see the value of a nice original driver 356 as compared to a similar 911?

vracer · vracer's Garage

Join the very knowledgeable organization, 356 Registry.

racer · 08-21-2013, 02:31 PM

The "right" car, whether 911 or 356 should continue to increase in value.

BK911 · BK911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by vracer

Join the very knowledgeable organization, 356 Registry.

Wasnt really looking for what 356 owners thought their cars were worth, but what somebody would pay for one relative to a similar condition long hood.
Plus isnt the 356 registry pay to play?

mattC2993 · 08-22-2013, 07:44 PM

I don't think you can generalize about 356s. The pre A and A model coupe pricing still seems to be rising. I can't say that about the B and C coupes and cabs. Convertible D's and Speedsters haven't gotten any cheaper either

I think you can still look at the 356 Registry forums even if you are not a member. You definitely can't post. Its a policy I never agreed with but the people that make the decisions are of an older generation and have totally disregarded the fact (IMHO) that forums don't run this way and its a big turnoff for many. Its all about getting revenue to fund the magazine which really is good.

wgwollet · 08-23-2013, 07:20 AM

The 356 is a great car, but generally it relates to older drivers. I have more then one friend under 40 years old looking for LONGHOODS. The common 356's will and are taking over the 356 world. First the 356 speedsters and cabs are just plain too expensive to own and enjoy today. Plus many are just restored buggies, the longhood T, can make a very wonderful car, plus it's a vintage 911, with 50 years of history. I like 356 but have on pulled the trigger for one mainly because of performance, I have a 912 and love the car, but slow, but much cheaper..

Lastly, 356 common cars, seem to have peaked for now, remember no matter what car you talk about it relates back to what the buyer remembers in his youth. 356 are now very old cars, my Uncles loves Model T's but most guys who love them are dead.

Matt Monson · 08-23-2013, 08:55 AM

I would be interested in seeing nice examples of 356s sitting stagnant at $40k...

BK911 · BK911's Garage

By 40 I meant 40s.

TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - Vehicles - Porsche - 356

$49k
TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - 1964 Porsche 356C Coupe - Newly Rebuilt Engine

$40k but with 912 engine
TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - 1964 356 C Coupe

$41k non number matching S90
TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - 1961 Porsche Super - 90

And a handful of others. All look like decent drivers. Seeing long hood Ts flying off the shelf at $50k, with some nice examples with asking prices near 6 digits.

Seems like the early 911 market has over taken the 356 market, at least for the B and C coupes.

wgwollet · 08-23-2013, 11:16 AM

I agree for the above reasons....that's not to say common 356's are not improving just not as fast as longhood 911's.

Matt Monson · 08-23-2013, 05:54 PM

Gotta compare equal cars. I don't see a 210k mi 911T or mid mileage 911T's with non-original engines jumping off the shelf at $50k. 911Ts of the caliber of this 356s you have linked are 25-30k cars IMO. Maybe a really nice '72 with 915 and a $20k 3.0 hot rod engine swap is a $40-50k car. But I'm just not seeing T's in particular surpass equal condition 356s.

wgwollet · 08-24-2013, 01:19 PM

Ummm...disagree....a equal common 356 vs a 911T both original engines, etc. the T is moving ahead...I passed up common 356 in 30-35 range, the problem with most 356 is they are very common with replaced panels, yes 911T are too but to find both in factory undercoating original panels, the T goes for more, not much, but next year when we have this conversation, the T could be 5-10 ahead....the Anihiem, CA 356 Registry woke up many sleeping vintage 911 cars, plus a lot of 911 guys like their cars with 3.0 engines....356 just not possible....and some of these modified 911 are bring big dollars.

mattC2993 · 08-24-2013, 02:25 PM

Sure, the early 911s are perhaps rising in price faster than some of the 356s. Have you priced out a 356A Outlaw lately? It'll cost you double an equivalent longhood.

Matt Monson · 08-24-2013, 07:21 PM

What Matt said. Take an Emory built A with a Polo engine and put it against an Aase or Rothsport built '69 T with a twin plug slide valve 3.2 and I bet the A pulls 10-20% on the T.

wgwollet · 08-24-2013, 07:38 PM

I have no idea what your talking about....I am stupid on doing anything to Porsches but making them original.

I am sure they are great cars, but experience tells me, if you ever want to be unside down on the value of a vintage car,..modify it...it's very costly and can never reach original prices..after you do the subtraction...now your not comparing apples to apples...

mattC2993 · 08-25-2013, 05:54 AM

You're the one that brought up modified cars...911s with 3.0 engines

Matt Monson · 08-25-2013, 12:41 PM

Never say never. Considering Magnus Walker's modified '72 T just brought $275k at Pebble Beach the idea that modding a vintage car is an impossible way to turn a profit or retain good value just doesn't hold water.

Clearly the exception to the rule but speaking in nevers or other absolutes generally can be disproven with multiple examples.

Augustus · 08-25-2013, 05:33 PM

^^^ Magnus probably spent $275k promoting his car.

Matt Monson · 08-27-2013, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augustus

^^^ Magnus probably spent $275k promoting his car.

Magnus probably made $1/4 Million on hats and t-shirts from the Urban Outlaw brand while advertising that car. And wrote off all the advertising budget to his clothing line. And the car probably cost $125k to build. Not a bad year's work in my book...

ficke · ficke's Garage

What I am hearing for example is " I am just not driving my 356 as much any more. I can not compete in traffic with it as easily as my SWB 911 and I still get the early vintage feel with the SWB" I have heard a variation of that with some frequency.
356's are entering the realm of static display collectable, many are driving of course but the early 911 has taking the 356's place as a drivable vintage Porsche.
The early 911 is looking as simple to the modern Porsche owner as the 356 did to the 911 owner so the vintage feel is just as pronounced to the modern Porsche owner.
I am seeing the price of 1965-1973 911's climbing and easily surpassing 356's of equal shape and options.
The SWB 911's are the pre A 356
The 2.4L 911 are the 356 C's
The 73 911 Carrera is $ wise on par with the 356 Carrera
Of course the 356 Carrera has a much more unique engine than the 73 Carrera and it can not be as easily duplicated like its 911 brethren so I doubt that price rise integrity of the 73 Carrera.

Matt Monson · 08-28-2013, 10:00 AM

I think ficke is starting to nail this down a bit more accurately than the rest of this discussion.

The 356B is kind of the unloved 356. You could say that it is the 70-71 911T of the 356 line. As I mentioned previously, we've got to compare like to like if we're going to genuinely look at this.

Take a 356C SC for example. Nice original and restored examples are anywhere from $60k-125K. I would compare that car to something like a 69-73 911E, which have somewhat similar pricing.

The only 356 one could compare to a longnose 911S would be a Carrera with 4 cam.

That's why I immediately asked about what $40k 356s were just sitting while 911s went past them. Maybe the 911 is starting to edge past the 356, but not by much, yet. Long term, who is to say. When '68 911S cars are going for close to $200k, it makes you wonder when it's going to stop because you could buy an ok Carrera GS with 4 cam for that same $200k.