'88 Carrera sunroof delete coupe

[Stonestreet]

Copied and pasted from my first PPI thread hoping for some input.

Yesterday I drove out to meet with a fellow Pelicanite to see and test another car that a friend of his has on consignment. This time it was an '88 Carrera, sunroof delete, and it was pretty clean. A couple small issues with the original paint here and there, but nothing that would ruin my day. It has a fair maintenance history, in that there isn't much that it's needed over the years, one item being the top end rebuild about 6000 miles/3years ago.

We took it for a test drive, I was fairly nervous getting behind the wheel to pull it out of his friend's showroom as it was surrounded by some pretty impressive cars and I'd never actually driven one before. Once we carefully got it out and on the road, she warmed up and felt great. From the cold start it idled nice and low around 850-900 rpm immediately. No issues at all that jumped out at me. I already decided I wanted it, to be honest. So finally after pushing the engine and the brakes a tiny bit, we brought it back and hopped out. After walking around the car a bit more and finding one or too tiny cosmetic issues, we noticed a spot of oil on the ground somewhere just below the chain tensioner housing. The car has been sitting in the same spot for as as long as 3-6 months so that might have something to do with it.

I really can't think of anything except the usual tired leather on the seats, a couple small cracks in the dash, minor damage from improper jacking of the car, road rash around the lights, minor surface rust. . . all the kind of things I'd like in a car. . .

So I've now been sent back to you guys to see what you think a fair offer would be given a clean PPI. I have a hard ceiling that I've set for myself and I have a bit of a feeling that my hard limit might be less than what the seller would accept.

[mpetry]

very straight, honest and unmolested looking car. A classic. Buy it !

[Stonestreet]

Originally Posted by mpetry

very straight, honest and unmolested looking car. A classic. Buy it !

Yup, that's what I was expecting to hear. It's a matter of money at this point.

[timchar]

Not sure of miles, as long as they are within reason and no major issues with ppi, I would say 25-30 k...Tim

[techweenie]

The '88 was delivered with 16 X 6" Fuchs in front, 16 X 8" in the rear (at least in the US). Not positive from the photos, but this one looks to have 16 X 7" all around, which is odd. I'd spend some time looking at details...

[msort81]

With Carrera prices on the rise they are all 30k cars in the end

[whiterabbit]

Easily worth 30k plus if the miles are under 100k. If miles are under 60k I think maybe closer to 40k. Very nice color combo and the sunroof delete adds $$$$.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit

Easily worth 30k plus if the miles are under 100k. If miles are under 60k I think maybe closer to 40k. Very nice color combo and the sunroof delete adds $$$$.

Wow, really? Are 3.2 cars now getting to be 30k???

That's a big jump since the summer.

[Stonestreet]

Originally Posted by techweenie

The '88 was delivered with 16 X 6" Fuchs in front, 16 X 8" in the rear (at least in the US). Not positive from the photos, but this one looks to have 16 X 7" all around, which is odd. I'd spend some time looking at details...

I can't remember off hand but it did have 16's on it all round. . .not factory size rubber though.

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

Wow, really? Are 3.2 cars now getting to be 30k???

That's a big jump since the summer.

I think the G50 cars have been there all year if in excellent condition with no stories and under 100k miles. I am sure someone will give example of particular deals but in general I think they (G50 Coupes) are now 30k cars. Dealers like Holt are asking and getting 40k plus for excellent 3.2 cars. If the car the OP is looking at has lower miles I think its worth 30k plus private and a good bit more at a dealer.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit

I think the G50 cars have been there all year if in excellent condition with no stories and under 100k miles. I am sure someone will give example of particular deals but in general I think they (G50 Coupes) are now 30k cars. Dealers like Holt are asking and getting 40k plus for excellent 3.2 cars. If the car the OP is looking at has lower miles I think its worth 30k plus private and a good bit more at a dealer.

That means that the 915 cars aren't that far behind. Normally, it's been about 2-4k premium for G50. Has that changed, too?

[cvlcporsche]

Originally Posted by techweenie

The '88 was delivered with 16 X 6" Fuchs in front, 16 X 8" in the rear (at least in the US). Not positive from the photos, but this one looks to have 16 X 7" all around, which is odd. I'd spend some time looking at details...

In 88 they came 16x6 front and 16x7 rear. Only in 89 did they get 8" rear wheels.

I like the sunroof delete but you haven't given us enough other info to accurately give it a value. Miles, history, PPI results, more photos, etc would net more accurate pricing info from the peanut gallery.

[Stonestreet]

Originally Posted by cvlcporsche

In 88 they came 16x6 front and 16x7 rear. Only in 89 did they get 8" rear wheels.

I like the sunroof delete but you haven't given us enough other info to accurately give it a value. Miles, history, PPI results, more photos, etc would net more accurate pricing info from the peanut gallery.

I can appreciate that. We haven't got to the point of a PPI just yet. It's got 175k Km on it, so around 110k miles I think. It is a fairly clean example though. I was walked around the car very patiently by the pelican member I mentioned and he showed me what I should be looking for, indicators of potential trouble type of stuff. He really took his time with me, looking under the carpets, along the door panels, in the engine bay, etc., which was hugely appreciated, before and after test driving it.

I can't really speak to the history of the car, I believe there were 2 previous owners, but I'm not entirely sure why I think that. . . Maybe because of the stamps in the service history all being from the same area.

I'm willing to make an offer on it as it is, before a PPI, so I guess we'll have to wait and see what transpires in the next few days.

I have already taken care of getting my lady onside with the fact that I'm going to get a 911. She's incredibly supportive. . .and likes the colour.

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

That means that the 915 cars aren't that far behind. Normally, it's been about 2-4k premium for G50. Has that changed, too?

My opinion (opinion) is that its getting hard to get an excellent low mile 915 3.2 car for under 30k especially with no sunroof or sport seats.

This Euro car which I think sold at 27.5k last week seemed a deal and I wonder how much it will be if/when it re-surfaces:

1986 Euro Carrera 3.2L Non Sunroof Coupe

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit

My opinion (opinion) is that its getting hard to get an excellent low mile 915 3.2 car for under 30k especially with no sunroof or sport seats.

The sunroof delete and sport seats are easily worth a 5K premium, if both are present. But only for the right buyer - the sunroof thing is important for some folks.

Me? I would prefer NO sunroof, ever. But that's just me.

[brock911]

I'm the Pelican that's offered assistance to Marc, the car in question has a few issues as indicated. I have inspected the car with Marc and have offered my opinion. I suggested that he put this to the forum for independent and objective opinions.

Outside of a few cosmetic issues the car has original paint on all panels except for passenger side rear quarter as tested by me with a paint meter. The quarter in question retains the stippled effect on the underside of the fender lip suggesting the re-paint was superficial and did not require significant damage repair which confirms what I was told about a ladder hitting the car in this spot. The driver side jack point has a slight dent from what appears to have been an inappropriate attempt to lift the car, although slight there appears to be some surface rust in the area of the cracked paint.

The dash as mentioned has two very slight cracks that are in an inconspicuous location and not very noticeable, however, they do exist.

Except for some general wear to the driver side seat bolster the balance of the interior is quite nice, carpets show some wear but the door panels, pockets, caps and door pocket lids are in very nice condition. Headliner is perfect with no signs of drooping or stains, not that you would expect this on a sunroof delete car. Gauges all work with no fogging of lenses. Steering wheel shows very good with slight wear and no loose threads.

The car started nicely and settled nicely with no hunting of the tach. Air compressor blew air but not cold indicating a possible re-charge is in order? Heat and fan worked fine, I was able to test these items while Marc was driving the car. The glass and exterior lights/lenses were in good condition with no cracks or chips but some slight wear from worn wipers that did not appear to be a distraction when driving in the car.

Back seats and rear area were as you'd expect in never used condition. Floors under all carpet appeared in very clean condition. The luggage area appeared to be clean and without signs of any rust or previous damage repair, all factory welds in tact in this area as well as the engine compartment which also appeared proper. The insulation was nice and not falling or showing signs of cracking or in need of replacement or attention.

During the drive the car sounded good accelerated very nicely and felt stable under braking with no signs of pulling. Steering appeared to be firm with no reports of feeling loose as indicated by Marc in response to my questioning how the car felt. I was able to ask several questions during the drive to provide Marc with items to be aware of, often times your focus is on driving the car and you don't pay much attention to some of the things you should or you forget about when nothing really jumps out at you.

Some of the service records provided show a top end rebuild and new clutch was completed 4 years ago (approximately 10,000 km ago or 6,000 miles), I happen to know the technician for some 32 years, he is Porsche factory trained and well known and respected as one of the finest mechanics in Ontario. We are trying t get more service history on the car, the current owner has had the car for approximately 10 years.

There was, as Marc indicated one drop of oil that fell 15 minutes after a nice drive that saw the car get to temperature. This may be because the car hasn't been driven in several months?

With respect to the wheels and tires, rubber is excellent (Bridgestone Potenza)and are approx 4 years old. The wheels are also in very good condition with very few marks, they are 16's, not sure of the widths.

I would like Marc to get good independent advice from the knowledgable guys on this site so he can make a more informed decision about this car. I have offered my opinion but it won't hurt to have others share opinions based on their experiences as well.

Regards,
Mike

[thepenguin99]

I can't help you with the non sunroof premium. As far as G50 with unique paint I recently saw one sell for 26k with 120k miles. Car was in excellent shape with bilsteins, wide fuchs, and a somewhat recent clutch. Had no history of top end work. It wasn't a perfect car. Had some rock chips, cruise didn't work, and a couple other small cosmetic issues (non paint related). The interior was as good or better than you describe this car.

[christiandk]

Great looking car. At sub 30k you will be making a good deal, imo.

[rockyraccoon]

Originally Posted by thepenguin99

I can't help you with the non sunroof premium. As far as G50 with unique paint I recently saw one sell for 26k with 120k miles. Car was in excellent shape with bilsteins, wide fuchs, and a somewhat recent clutch. Had no history of top end work. It wasn't a perfect car. Had some rock chips, cruise didn't work, and a couple other small cosmetic issues (non paint related). The interior was as good or better than you describe this car.

Here she is.

[Stonestreet]

Thanks rocky, that interior looks very nice. Overall a pretty good reference point for the one I'm looking at.

Mike, thanks for chiming in and filling in some of the blanks. I'm learning a whole ton during this process and feel very grateful towards the entire community.

Cheers,

Marc