Because SCs are skyrocketing, 996s worth another look?

[m962b]

I know they are water cooled. I know the IMS and RMS issues. I know they lack the old world feel and sound of the early cars. We all know all of the issues with the 996 and the stupid headlights. BUT- with any 915 or G50 going through the roof as of late, and the earlier ones way out of sight (even the 2.7s,) the 2000+ cars are fast becoming the least expensive cars out there.

So if you are stuck on the old car feel, this question is not for you obviously. If you are a fan of just the build quality, heritage, and longevity and community support of one of the greatest sports cars of all time, doesn't a 996 fit the bill? It's quicker than the SCs, it has more modern amenities, it has better brakes. It's a better daily driver, and yet still faster on the track.

SO when does the 996 become a better deal. At what point, if not already, do we see some people just say, "I'm not really that interested in buying and selling my car, i just want a 911 I can enjoy." Clearly the 996 won't appreciate like the older cars, but then again, someone has to start to check the market here. 30 year old cars with 200k miles shouldn't be starting around $18k (IMO.) There are going to be a lot of bits and pieces to fix in those cars.

Am I totally off the mark here, or are others starting to see some value in the 996 now with everything else skyrocketing? Or is the pleasure of owning an earlier car and talking about it with others who own the same car or the romance of a "classic" something worth the increase in price in the last 2 years?

[MrBonus]

Having previously owned a 997, if I'm looking at a non-GT3 water cooled Porsche, I will ultimately be spending my money elsewhere on a less expensive to maintain car.

[COLB]

If you are looking for a reasonably priced, reliable used sports car -- where things like the A/C work -- you can do worse than a 996 or a Boxster.

I've seen a few 996s in the mid to high teens in nice condition, with the IMS done. I think there is a thread on one somewhere here. I think $14-15 will likely be the depreciation floor for these cars. (excluding wrecks, ragged/flogged examples, or those with 150k on them.)

There are a lot of low mileage examples out there, and if the IMS/Clutch, AOS, and cooling system have been seen to, they are very reliable cars.

That is a lot of car for the money. A completely different driving & ownership experience from an air-cooled car.

Comparing the two is a question do I want a classic car or a modern car -- not really "what kind of 911 do I want".

[Macroni]

Yes.... they are the current PCar value as air cools have gained in popularity....

[KNS]

Originally Posted by m962b

I know they are water cooled. I know the IMS and RMS issues. I know they lack the old world feel and sound of the early cars. We all know all of the issues with the 996 and the stupid headlights. BUT- with any 915 or G50 going through the roof as of late, and the earlier ones way out of sight (even the 2.7s,) the 2000+ cars are fast becoming the least expensive cars out there.

So if you are stuck on the old car feel, this question is not for you obviously. If you are a fan of just the build quality, heritage, and longevity and community support of one of the greatest sports cars of all time, doesn't a 996 fit the bill? It's quicker than the SCs, it has more modern amenities, it has better brakes. It's a better daily driver, and yet still faster on the track.

SO when does the 996 become a better deal. At what point, if not already, do we see some people just say, "I'm not really that interested in buying and selling my car, i just want a 911 I can enjoy." Clearly the 996 won't appreciate like the older cars, but then again, someone has to start to check the market here. 30 year old cars with 200k miles shouldn't be starting around $18k (IMO.) There are going to be a lot of bits and pieces to fix in those cars.

Am I totally off the mark here, or are others starting to see some value in the 996 now with everything else skyrocketing? Or is the pleasure of owning an earlier car and talking about it with others who own the same car or the romance of a "classic" something worth the increase in price in the last 2 years?

Crazy, isn't it? What other cars would fetch those kinds of prices with 200,000 miles on it? While Ferraris will easily command more than $18K I've never heard of one with 200,000 miles, let alone 100,000.

They day will come when someone who really wants a 911 to drive and enjoy (not necessarily collect) will have no other choice but to buy a water cooled model - even though they may really want an air cooled model. The prices for enthusiasts/hobbyists will leave them no other choice.

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by KNS

They day will come when someone who really wants a 911 to drive and enjoy (not necessarily collect) will have no other choice but to buy a water cooled model - even though they may really want an air cooled model. The prices for enthusiasts/hobbyists will leave them no other choice.

That day is not far off. In my opinion, I think the Boxster is a better all around driver than the 996. And they are dirt cheap to buy and fairly inexpensive to maintain. I owned both a Boxster and an air cooled 911. As I was driving the Boxster all of the time, and rarely taking the 911 out of the garage, I ended up selling the 911. Heresy I know.

[dporsche74]

996 is a awesome car in EVERY WAY .. Period. !!!

Now they are so cheap nothing compares .. dollar for dollar
MY99 daily driver rain snow heatwave for over 5years..
best car i ever owned !! ..compared to AMG and M it rocks
RMS... so what.. it a 10 dollar gasket part jeez.. really??
. IMS problem is so rare nd cheap to fix .. someone in it pass has done it by now.
so many cry babies online gives them a bad name in google searches
overall . odds are .. not a worry
remember 2.7 head studs pull from case that a problem . or CIS runninng issues nobody can figure out .. that a problem .

[914agogo]

Quote " IMS problem is so rare nd cheap to fix .. someone in it pass has done it by now. "
and do you think that the 2.7 head stud issue would ALSO have been done by now???
most have had it done also, so not really a problem

[metzger]

The 996 is an amazing value in today's market, there's no question about that. It's what I started out looking for when I decided it was time for a Porsche. Unfortunately, looking at a 996 and 997 side by side, I realized that the 996 is not aging well, IMO. I don't think it's going to be the forgotten era like the die-hards might say, but for me, I'd have to spend the extra money for a 997.... which actually, the gap has closed up quickly since the 991 came out. Still, whatever I end up with is going to be a weekend cruiser and I've decided that I don't really need the comforts of a newer car for that purpose.... I'm shopping for a '78-89 car.

Anyway, the 996 is definitely to be considered, you just need to define exactly what the purpose for your purchase will be.

[uncle_scott]

I did this same thing. I sold my 84' 911 that was stripped out, no AC, no stereo, lightweight interior. While the car was beautiful to look at inside and out, driving the car everyday became impractical really quickly for me. I loved the car, but ultimately sold it. A year later I wanted to get back into a Porsche, and after looking at a few ragged air-cooled cars that I could afford, I started looking at 996 cars. I ended up with a 1999 with "high" miles at about 122,000. The car has 126,000 on it now after just a few short months of daily driving. I love everything about it, and I really think it feels and drives like a modern car should. I don't sweat the IMS, the clutch feels great, and there are no leaks. Best of all the climate control and radio actually work and the car is generally a nice place to be in for extended driving periods.

One day I know I will want an air-cooled car to look after and look at, but as for driving every single day, I would take the 996 in a heartbeat. Especially at the low price of entry.

[Cluskera]

Do you really think SCs are "skyrocketing"?

[COLB]

Originally Posted by Cluskera

Do you really think SCs are "skyrocketing"?

I would guess they are up ~30-40% since the summer of 2012.

Choose the adjective that seems most appropriate.

Perhaps more interesting, the values of 74-77 mid years are pretty much tracking with comparable SCs now.

[metzger]

Originally Posted by Cluskera

Do you really think SCs are "skyrocketing"?

They've gone up easily $10k in 2 years. That's impressive.

[metzger]

Originally Posted by COLB

Perhaps more interesting, the values of 74-77 mid years are pretty much tracking with comparable SCs now.

Makes me think I should jump on an old S because they're easier to find with a lot less competition over them. I'm not sold on the idea yet though... although I definitely wish I would have had the time to grab that Minerva Blue 3.0 swapped car a few days ago. Awesome color.

[COLB]

I'm not sold on the idea yet though...

I've been called a heretic, but it is really a matter of market tastes.

Simple lines, narrow bodies, retro colors, and chrome accents are all "in" -- the "long hood" look.

Mid Years: narrow bodies, chrome accents, few tails/spoilers, and more interesting colors.

SCs: wider bodies, anodized trim, lots of tails, fewer interesting colors (but more than Carreras)

Neither car is a barnburning straightline performer, and a rebuilt mid-year 911S without restrictive smog stuff probably doesn't give up much to a heavier 3.0 SC.

The more these cars become cruisers and collectibles, the less the performance and reliability advantages of the SC cars matter.

[Matt Monson]

I would prefer a skinny bright '74 with short ring and pinion over an '80 sc any day of the week, equal condition cars.

The 996 is a bargain for what it is. If I found a nice driver could for $15-20k I would buy it and drive it for a few years. And if you get one on the track they are really pleasant.

[Mehoff]

It's no secret I do not like the 996....in fact I've been fairly vocal about these things not having a valuation floor. The interior sucks, the styling is abysmal, the as-delivered motor is pedestrian at best and the gear box suffers at heat. Just a weak 911 variant.

That said, it looks like the 3.6's have finally bottomed out, for no reason other than the cost of the drivetrain. 2 years ago you could grab a core all day at $2500-3000, now we can't find them for any less than $6,500. I think that alone holds the value of these things above $15k.

The 3.4 is a different story; I see no floor there....just an awful car soup to nuts IMHO.

NOTE: all the vitriol aside, I own of these things. Dump enough time and money into it and they make a great race car.

[whiterabbit]

I can't see any appeal in a 996 over an SC or 3.2 even at half the price as a fun second car. I may consider one as a day to day beater but would probably buy an Audi S4 or M3 instead.

Longterm even at todays prices or more an SC makes way more sense than a 996. To me if a 911 isn't air cooled it looses a lot of the appeal.

[Dirty911]

I'm seeing the occasional 997 c2 in the mid-low 30's, how low do you think they'll go?

[PushingMyLuck]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

I owned both a Boxster and an air cooled 911. As I was driving the Boxster all of the time, and rarely taking the 911 out of the garage, I ended up selling the 911. Heresy I know.

Why did you like the Boxster so much more?
Or were you just preserving your 911?