Another forward dated "Sheeper"......
 

I'm simply fascinated by these 993 clones (?); especially done on a longhood (geez).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/883959-72-911t-coupe-69-912-coupe-2-car-package.html

MattR

Why sell them as a package ?

Why would you want both ?

You guys are being harsh - it's not like it was converted this week - it was done when it made sense so. You know, that time when all the 72T owners were like "gosh, this really should get 993 body work to be spot on"

What would be really awesome is a 356 rebodied as a Cayenne.

It's all in good fun. I'm amazed at some of the details that go into these conversions. We are talking 10-20k in kits, paint, labor etc..... Just blows my mind considering 1) you can get a used 993 high mileage for not a lot of dough; -and 2) the forward dating of a (unknown at the time) high value of longhood...

MattR

First 993 I have seen with an oil filler on the passenger quarter panel........

I hope someone doesn't use the 912 as a donor car. That car deserves a restoration more so than the 911 at this point. Would cost less and what a great color!

Yup. The 912 could be sweet.

Re: the faux 993, the interior and engine "money shot" are the let down....

MattR

For many years, I wanted to put Flag mirrors and flares on my 73.5.....

When I bought my 1st 911, in 1985, it was a 74 coupe 1 owner ice green metallic. All original. Being a bonehead 22 year old back then, I quickly proceeded to put flag mirrors on and painted all the bright trim black, to make it look like a newer car. Blew up my airbox a few months later and sold the car. Boy how I wish I could have it back! Funniest thing was I took out a student loan (unbeknownst to my parents) to buy it for $8000! Ah the joys of being young and stupid... :-)

This is just what I need so valets will leave my car out front - in Miami Beach or Las Vegas:rolleyes:

1977 Porsche 930 Carrera Turbo, $39,900 - Cars.com

Classy and understated

Simply.........bangin......

On a side note, I'm not sure that is a sheeper since it's a real turbo. What a shame.


MattR

^^^
Yeah - maybe not a sheeper in that it's not underpowered like some other forward dated cars, but the ad seems to indicate that's it's not a genuine 930 either:
Wonder what real turbo's cost when they were sinking $100k into this beast?

"DIY Sheeper Kit" and, at the same time, it looks like a case of "Sheeper Remorse"

Porsche 993 2S body kit 911

All sheep, no sleep...

Will work on 912, 911 and 964 ...lol....


MattR

All joking aside, don't get the scorn here.

People update their cars for many reasons, perhaps they wish to drive them without looking out of place. How many longhoods have you seen actually being used and driven ? Other than to car shows and events. Perhaps they are replacing old rusted body panels with the new body kit. All valid and understandable reasons for the "upgrade".

People are free to do as they please with their cars, but to update the looks, while leaving an anemic drive-train in place, is just asking to be poked with a stick. As far as I'm concerned, any vehicle that looks significantly more substantive than it is (such as the factory, "Turbo Look" 911s) is poke-stick worthy. :)

In a rich man's world, sure the scorn is well deserved, but most people have a limited budget to work with so what shall it be, update the drivetrain or replace the rusted body ?

Having said that, I'm with you on the poke worthy 912 or 912e. Those are just embarrassing.

^^^

Personally, I would not own a car that "looks" more powerful than it is, so for me, the drive-train comes first. Butt that said, and along the lines of the $ reference you made above, when I was a late teen/early twenties back in the 80s, "more pow'a" was out of the question as I have never been in a position to pay others to work on my car (wouldn't pay for it if I could, as working on them is part of the "pride in ownership" for me), and did not yet have the knowledge and experience necessary to build power or maintain a powerful machine, so I settled for fast looking back then. So with that in mind, you do make a good point.

I guess it also primarily boils down to personsl preference, as many members don't give a flip about engine power, and think originality is more important (something I don't give two ****s about - not even one ****, in fact).

On the 912 subject; I sling a lot more shat about them than I actually believe (mainly just to yank Christian's chain). I respect the 912 for what it is and it certainly is not a machine which poses as something it is not.

Now with all that nonsense barfed forth, it sure is nice that not everyone has the same tastes in machines - would be much more difficult to fling feces if that were the case! :D

I just do not get fakey do cars, I think it is a weird to want to pretend you have something else with body work and emblems.
What a mind trip to be on.

Pmin getting to ya?

MattR

^^^ Ha! It took me a little bit to understand what you meant by "pmin" - well done!

That was the problem with the 912s, didn't have the power to back up the look of the 911.

I bet your 930 sure looks powerful but still, it wouldn't keep up with the latest watercoolers.
Besides, replacing body panels doesn't change the driving experience so who cares what others think as long as it still drives and performs like a 911.

And they managed to 'top' that with the 912e which is not only slow but sounds like a VW bus.

[QUOTE=pmax;8820873]I bet your 930 sure looks powerful but still, it wouldn't keep up with the latest watercoolers.
Besides, replacing body panels doesn't change the driving experience so who cares what others think as long as it still drives and performs like a 911.



UOTE]

You are completely missing the point here.
A 930 looks like a 930 and it drives like a 930. I would bet money that Ronnie did not spend money and time to make his 930 look like a water cooled car, so your comparison is not applicable :rolleyes:

And dressing up a car to look like another car that is more powerful does not diminish the driving experience of that car but it sure labels you as a poser/ wanna be.

And obviously the person who changes body panels to look like something better, is clearly very concerned about what people think they look like other wise they would have put their time and money into mechanicals that improve the driving experience.
Basic logic.

For most of their life, 911s have been seen as status symbols to many. Frequently as the models evolved and changed, guys who couldn't afford the latest greatest built the closest thing they could afford. It's just part of 911 history.

Nobody would build this car today. It was likely done 20 or 30 years ago. And now the only reason it is for sale is the run up in values. This morning I saw a guy asking about a 69 911e with a slopenose conversion. everyone told him to run screaming. If that car isn't all rusted out and the original 2.0l is still there, that car is worth quite a bit. And worth restoring. Sheeper be damned. Who cares what the guy who did it decades ago was thinking. You want a longnose project? Cars like these ones are worth looking closely at and considering. But projects aren't for everyone.

My point was .... drivetrain mods is not all there is to customizing your 911.

No one, certain celebrities excepted, is posing 'in your face' and hyping their personalized cars to the world. They are just enjoying them as private owners and yes, enthusiasts. I would even say they are more of an enthusiast than the collectors who do not drive their condition one cars.

The early 911L was about the same 0-60 as the 912. The 912 handled better.

1968 911L (2.0) 1075 1991 130@6100 176@4200 131
10.6 second 0-60

1965-69 912 970 1582 90@5800 122@3500 119
11.1 second 0-60

The 912 was the true bridge between the 356 and 911. Have you priced nice longhood 912s lately?

912 with a 912 badge ain't a sheep! Lol....

In 1967 Zasada won the European Rally Chsmpionship for Touring cars in a 912. He scored more points in the series then Vic Elford in his Monte Carlo winning 911s. Power isn't always why one wins a race, just like the old 356s used to beat big engine Ferraris.

Here's a fun read:

912s in Motorsports History

Now let's get back to talking Sheepers!


MattR

Problem was, it was Mustangs, Z28s & other Pony cars of the era that were running them, and as some 912s were purchased (I'm talking long after new) were bought by people who wanted a 911, and couldn't afford a 911, but still managed to find themselves revving their engines at stop lights when a "Pony Car" pulled revving their engines. Lets face it, to someone who don't know Porsches, a 69 911S & 66 912 look alike.
I don't disagree that a 912 handled well, just going by stories from old mechanics who fixed 912s trying to be a 911:p

Thanks for the link, I'm going to buy myself a 912e to experience the sheepiness :)

A 912E with a Jake Raby engine would be a BLAST, 911S/SC power +, better balance, yes.
And for the record, back in the 80s, a buddy built a turbo 912, and it was a Wolf, in sheep's clothing.

Sheeper-herder (rumored to be numbers-matching and with genuine factory all cloth rear flares!)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443920495.jpg

All sheeper owners/operators should be required to rock a shirt like this when behind (pun intended) the wheel!

http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.70838...,ffffff.u1.jpg

Need a sticker.

MattR

Certainly can't dispute the straight line performance of early American muscle cars, but most of them handled like a bucket of **** in the twisties. Apples and oranges my friend.

Btw, a 67 or 68 Firebird is still on my wish list.

MattR

When I was in high school all the shop guys were taking their dad's old Mustangs and replacing the straight 6 with a 289. Porsche isn't the only one who had entry level cars. Lots of ponies started life without a v8 heart.

And we were kids. I revved my dad's 83 rx7, which later became mine, at anyone who lined up with me at a stoplight. I'm 45 now. I've known the value of the twisties for 25 years.

Let's remember our history folks. 912's were made because the factory was afraid the customer wouldn't support the price of the 911. And they were right, at first. They already had a proven, well accepted engine in the 356, with some left over, BTW, that fit nicely into the engine bay of the new body style. 912's were born.

Nobody in their right mind ever revved their 912 engine when pulling up to a stop light against ANY pony or muscle car. We knew how to beat those guys, and it wasn't zero to 60! Ask me how I know.

They were, and always have been, the poor man's 911. Slower yes, but all the fixin's of a true Porsche. We gave those BMW 2002's fits, and lost the big HP pony's in the twisties. I loved 'em, but they, and all the early cars, rusted like hell.