How much HP for NA 3.2L?

Warviking · 05-27-2005, 02:32 PM

I'm curious what HP gains people have gotten from aftermarket bolt ons for the 3.2L. Seems like there are a lot of claims out there:
Powerflow air intake 10hp
Powerchip 20hp
B&B headers and Muffler 22hp

With base HP for 84-86 being 207 these upgrades would bring the total to 259. From reading here it seems most these claims are quite a bit exaggerated. 911 performance handbook mentions a car with Autothority A.P.E. Mass air flow sensor, SSI heat exchangers, and stock muffler with 236 hp.

What gains have you found?

Jim

randywebb · 05-27-2005, 02:49 PM

You can't just add them up (unless you work in marketing for a seller for such items...).

For add-ons, the engine will be "cam-limited" - a hotter cam can make more power (until the engine becomes intake or exhaust limited, or...). The problem there is the shape of the torque cruve, driveability, detonation, emissions, _longevity_ etc. It's all in what you are trying to optimize.

don911 · don911's Garage

In my opinion, my 3.2L is about maxed out for hp with bolt ons.
Here's my motor today:
Stock 3.2L motor
Autothority MAF with chip
Dansk euro pre-muffler
Stock muffler
no A/C

I dyno'd the motor last weekend. If you do a search, I posted dyno charts. On the dyno I used, the hp was roughly 204 at the wheels/240 at the flywheel. Dyno showed a rich mixture. Next step is a custom chip from Steve W to get the last bits of hp and get the mixture right.

For the exhaust side, replacing the cat with a euro pre muffler yields the biggest gain. SSI's and B&Bs are really nice but not worth the money from a $/hp view. IMHO.

Intake side. I really like the MAF. Once I got it working properly, the car runs really nice with it. Throttle response is far better than with the stock air meter.

bigrubberjeep · 05-27-2005, 04:57 PM

Add a K&N Filter, it will add 10-15% in HP.

I did it!

No really, don't do it!

Tyson Schmidt · 07:03 PM

The absolute best bang for the buch on a 3.2 is exhaust, and a custom chip to get the most out of that exhaust.

SSI's are good, but are too small for a 3.2.

The exhaust ports on a 3.2 are 38mm. SSI's are only 35mm.

Either go with a Euro pre-muffler in place of the cat, and a sport muffler, or a cat bypass pipe and a sport muffler. Either of these will be easily reversible if you need to smog it.

If you don't have to smog, then a B&B or GHL header sytem with heat, and a custom muffler will bring the best performance.

On my own car, I installed 993 heat exchangers and ran them into an SC muffler, then added a second outlet. Sounds amazing, and the torque and throttle response are night and day. I need to get Steve Wong to burn me a new chip to take advantage of the new exhaust. I'm currently running one that he burned me for the old system with a bypass pipe.

Don't bother with a mass airflow sensor unless you want to run some very aggressive cams that the flapper box airflow meter won't tolerate. It's not much bang for the buck, and can hurt driveability if it's not tuned correctly.

Warviking · 05-27-2005, 07:47 PM

Anybody have the enlarged throttle body?

Carrera3.5L · Carrera3.5L's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Warviking
Anybody have the enlarged throttle body?

You mean like this?

stock on left, modified on right

The motor is a 3.5L though with a bunch of other mods.

Ralph

Jeff Alton · 05-27-2005, 08:30 PM

A bunch.................... he he he

Jeff

Carrera3.5L · Carrera3.5L's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by catca
A bunch.................... he he he

Jeff

Oops, did I say mods? It's actually stock except for the gaudy red plug wires running all over the place.

Seriously though, on a relatively stock 3.2L the throttle body should be one of the last things you worry about. Better to free up the exhaust first along with the rest of the intake tract before enlarging the throttle body. Get Steve to burn you a chip, he's a good guy and will help you extract the most power you can.

Ralph

RUF CTR · 05-28-2005, 04:32 AM

There is a guy here in SWEDEN ho is a guru in porsche engines.He build a 3,2 stock engine with carbs that was brake 420 hk,that is cool.Here is a picture.

Warviking · 05-28-2005, 05:06 AM

I bet your car is pretty fast.

I do have a wong chip. Seemed to give a little more hp. More of a smooth acceleration. I have just been curious what other things actually work. Seems on the boards for every thing you might do there is somebody who says it doesn't work. And of course there are a lot of claims by manufacturers that seems quite exaggerated.

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrera3.5L
Oops, did I say mods? It's actually stock except for the gaudy red plug wires running all over the place.

Seriously though, on a relatively stock 3.2L the throttle body should be one of the last things you worry about. Better to free up the exhaust first along with the rest of the intake tract before enlarging the throttle body. Get Steve to burn you a chip, he's a good guy and will help you extract the most power you can.

Ralph

jtratza · 05-28-2005, 06:15 AM

Tyson.
What did you do to get the 993 headers to work? I assume you hooked them up for heat. Was there a weight savings? Why an SC muffler? What about the cat? Got pics? Sorry for all the questions but I'm planning on a rebuild and am looking for an alternative to SSI or expensive B&B type headers. I'll do a search on this next.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

The big issue w/ the 993 oem headers is the orientation of the passenger side flanges

The right headers set is 993

The right header set is 911/964

heat will also need to be rerouted

Warviking · 05-28-2005, 07:04 AM

Did you add the bypass, maf and chip yourself? If so what differences did you notice?

Quote:

Originally posted by jtratza
Tyson.
What did you do to get the 993 headers to work? I assume you hooked them up for heat. Was there a weight savings? Why an SC muffler? What about the cat? Got pics? Sorry for all the questions but I'm planning on a rebuild and am looking for an alternative to SSI or expensive B&B type headers. I'll do a search on this next.

livi · 05-28-2005, 07:09 AM

Will a K&N filter really add any power ??
From what I understand the intake is not the bottle neck in the 3.2 engine. It´s the exhaust part and that´s where you can gain some HP.

Right ??

RSupdate · RSupdate's Garage

Tyson's right on the $$$ here with the best bang for your buck with bolt-on mods.

The max power any n/a 3.2L will be able to put out will be close to the 250hp mark. This will probably require Euro p/c, cams, fresh valve job, extrudehoned intake runners, some dyno runs to get a/f readings and then a custom chip to match the dyno data etc...

Have fun & good luck !!

jpachard · 05-28-2005, 08:46 AM

I get 219RWHP from a custom exhaust, chip and cup airbox. Everything else is stock. As was mentioned before, it's all in the exhaust and bigger is not better.

Cheers, James

randywebb · 09:54 AM

You can get more than 250 hp - longevity will start to come down as you push further...

"it's all in the exhaust" -- pretty much true at first - after you address that issue, you will next encounter a different limiting factor, overcome it, and another... the whole process is based on addressing each in turn (or figureing out which ones in advance).

"SSI's are good, but are too small for a 3.2."
-I'm assuming Tyson means for a full race engine. (?) For street, partial street, or AX this conflicts with everything I've ever heard from the top builders. John Daniels also says he has extensive dyno data on this, and that his SSIs are fine for a 3.2L used as above.

The other fly in the ointment is the resistance of the entire exhaust system - i.e. are you using a muffler or not, and which one. If you have headers and open pipes, the resistance is already low.